Strange F4....

[Bazz Jass]

Seems to be a 1919 (by the serial number).

Later factory refinish and new fingerboard. Gibson work? The refinish looks it.

https://reverb.com/item/52148172-gib...m=Feed%20Email

I love how sellers who profess to know nothing about an instrument tend to pluck a rather high number out of the air and say "it's worth this!"

[Richard500]

The owner is deceased and he has been sitting in a closet for many many years.

This discouraged further inquiry.

[KCNelson]

The seller of this '19 F4 should do a tuner swap with the seller of this $6500 FrankenGibson, considering they each have the wrong A/F style tuners.
https://reverb.com/item/47200281-one...idges-2-saddle

At least the F4 has a nicely done, if non-original, refinish.
The description of the poor Gibson A is the most profoundly insane thing I've read in the mandolin world.
I shudder that these people are in the business of "restoring" instruments, at all.

[journeybear]

The description of the poor Gibson A is the most profoundly insane thing I've read in the mandolin world.
I shudder that these people are in the business of "restoring" instruments, at all.

I believe we have seen this seller before. And yes, he does go on and on and on about what's been going on with his instruments. He should put as much attention to detail into the restorations as the descriptions thereof. Who knows - maybe he does. But it's too much to say. And too much to pay.

The owner is deceased and he has been sitting in a closet for many many years.

This discouraged further inquiry.

Understood. Not all things improve with age.

[TheMandoKit]

The owner is deceased and he has been sitting in a closet for many many years.

Hopefully not holding the mandolin.

[KCNelson]

If you've never read this Onion article about the invention of the Hyperbolic Chamber, I would encourage you to do so.
I often think of it when I read floral descriptions like the FrankenGibson.
The Hyperbolic Chamber is "an unquestionably, undeniably, fantastically revolutionary milestone in the history of science, mankind, and the universe, all of which it will undoubtedly change forever."
https://www.theonion.com/amazing-new...-th-1819567821

[William Smith]

Well the fretboard is a mid 30's rare F-12 board! The neck looks to be a 1935ish re-finish, body the same?

[rcc56]

I'm assuming the first digit of the serial number to be a 5, so that would indicate an original shipping date of 1919.

However, the rosette appears to be characteristic of much later production, so I'm going to suggest that the top or at least the rosette was replaced along with the fingerboard in the 1930's, and a complete refinish applied at the same time.

The pickguard with the celluloid support arm is more characteristic of 1916 to 1918, and I usually see the greenish celluloid only in 1917. I would expect to see a metal support rod on a 1919 instrument.

The bridge does not appear to be a Gibson product. Everything else looks like Gibson work, except for the tuners.

That's a nice looking back.

[Bazz Jass]

Shame they didn't replace the the missing inlay. Seems to have just been glossed over....

BTW, the stringing on the OUTSIDE of the posts is totally doing my head in!!! Yikes

Plus, how is it even possible to turn those upper tuners??

[Hendrik Ahrend]

I see a 1919 F4 with a mid '30s F12/F10 style finger board and mid '30s Kluson tuners, new top (!) and new finish overall (with the sides and possibly also the back restained). The neck is the original three piece with the originally black stripe adapted in color.
The pick guard is original, the bridge mid'30s.

[Sue Rieter]

... Plus, how is it even possible to turn those upper tuners??

My F2 came from Texas with weird old A style tuners on it. Here's what the previous owner did to solve that access problem

[Bazz Jass]

My F2 came from Texas with weird old A style tuners on it. Here's what the previous owner did to solve that access problem

Oh man...!

[webber]

My F2 came from Texas with weird old A style tuners on it. Here's what the previous owner did to solve that access problem

Call me a weirdo, but I love how that looks

[allenhopkins]

Them tuners ain't weird, they're Handels! Worth a pretty penny in and of themselves, though mis-matched to an F-model mandolin.

[webber]

Them tuners ain't weird, they're Handels! Worth a pretty penny in and of themselves, though mis-matched to an F-model mandolin.

I was talking about the previous owner's hacky cutout. The pyramidal slot and the way you can see the mahogany underneath the ebony makes it cool to my eyes!

[Sue Rieter]

Here's the tuners my F2 came from Texas with



Dave R put stew mac repros on, and I changed them out for the Handels. But, Allen, even though the Handels come from an F4, I'm pretty sure they're the right tuners for this instrument.

[Bazz Jass]

Here's the tuners my F2 came from Texas with



Dave R put stew mac repros on, and I changed them out for the Handels. But, Allen, even though the Handels come from an F4, I'm pretty sure they're the right tuners for this instrument.

Definitely right - I think there's some confusion in the posts above about what tuners were on when

[William Smith]

I've seen a lot of things in my short time but man, that photo above is something else! Sorry I couldn't resist.

[Bazz Jass]

This F4 just listed on Reverb also has replacement "A" tuners!

Good grief. It's not rocket science....

https://reverb.com/item/52327446-gib...-1921-sunburst

[journeybear]

Here's the tuners my F2 came from Texas with

I don't recall ever seeing under and over tuners on the same instrument - always one or the other. Tuning must be fun!

And AFAIC, Handels always look cool, whether or not they are "appropriate" for the time period.

My 1916 A-4 has them. My 1922 F-4 doesn't. And I wish it did. Just looks a little underdressed without them.

[jim simpson]

I don't recall ever seeing under and over tuners on the same instrument - always one or the other. Tuning must be fun!

And AFAIC, Handels always look cool, whether or not they are "appropriate" for the time period.

My 1916 A-4 has them. My 1922 F-4 doesn't. And I wish it did. Just looks a little underdressed without them.

Here's an easy fix, just cut the headstock like this Washburn to allow the a-style tuners to work, lol!

[journeybear]

Well, I suppose that's a functional workaround ... and a neatly symmetrical job, too ... but ... ... but ... ...

[allenhopkins]

Here's the tuners my F2 came from Texas with

...

Yeah, those are weird. I stand corrected. The Handels were a later addition, as you say, and correct for a pre-1918 or so F-2.

I have a three-point F-2 from around 1910, and it's got the Handels. F-2's, F-4's, A-4's all had the Handels.

[KCNelson]

Yeah, those are weird. I stand corrected. The Handels were a later addition, as you say, and correct for a pre-1918 or so F-2.

I have a three-point F-2 from around 1910, and it's got the Handels. F-2's, F-4's, A-4's all had the Handels.

~Could you post a picture of your 1910 F2? There are never enough pictures of 3-pointers out there. Thanks!

[allenhopkins]

~Could you post a picture of your 1910 F2? There are never enough pictures of 3-pointers out there. Thanks!

Thanx for the request, but I don't do pics. Just a bit tech-challenged at my advanced age...