Finely controlling humidity seems to be a "must", but I wonder

[Bill Bradshaw]

Hi all:

I live in Wyoming and am going on a week long boat cruise in early May from Seattle to Alaska and back. I don't want to skip a week of playing so want to take my mando.

There are "bluegrass cruises" where pros take their instruments, lots of folks live in coastal areas and must surely go to drier climates and vice versa, and folks travel all over the world with great instruments. I've just not read or heard of catastrophes from people doing this. I do recall one pro telling me he had to raise the action a bit going from the west to the southeast but no biggie. I had a 1920 Gibson A that I'm sure never saw a humidifier, and probably lived in the barn for a long time before I got it. It was a wonderful sounding and playing instrument (no truss rod) that made somebody in Montana happy I bet.

Most Google stuff seems to be about "you pretty much have to control your instrument humidity" within some optimal range, or don't take your good instrument if you can't control humidity. Maybe changes people hear are mostly subtle (buzzes) but not usually major (seam separations, neck bows).

I just wonder how so many great instruments survived over so many years before instrument humidifiers came on the scene.

Not a real point or question to this post I guess, and I totally understand that (happily) many musicians have better hearing and are more attuned to sound nuances than me. But is humidifying to fine ranges maybe like CBD or Glucosomine with a placebo effect?

Anyway, I called the person who made my mando (50 years in the business) and am going to trust his suggestion (paraphrased), take it, play it, have fun, and don't sweat it. He just didn't expect there would be any major impact to the mando; didn't even mention having to adjust the action (no biggie if that is needed.

Cheers all,

Bill

[sunburst]

...I've just not read or heard of catastrophes from people doing this...

While catastrophes do happen resulting from dry/wet conditions, they are less common than more simple damage. If it takes avoiding a catastrophe to qualify as a reason to humidify/dehumidify an instrument then we can get away with a lot most of the time.
As a repair person I must say that I see finish damage, cracks, seam separations, plate/rim misalignment, set up problems of all kinds and so forth all as a result of improper humidity. Generally these problems are not catastrophic, but they do take a toll on instruments.

[DaveGinNJ]

Hi all:

I live in Wyoming and am going on a week long boat cruise in early May from Seattle to Alaska and back. I don't want to skip a week of playing so want to take my mando.

There are "bluegrass cruises" where pros take their instruments, lots of folks live in coastal areas and must surely go to drier climates and vice versa, and folks travel all over the world with great instruments. I've just not read or heard of catastrophes from people doing this. I do recall one pro telling me he had to raise the action a bit going from the west to the southeast but no biggie. I had a 1920 Gibson A that I'm sure never saw a humidifier, and probably lived in the barn for a long time before I got it. It was a wonderful sounding and playing instrument (no truss rod) that made somebody in Montana happy I bet.

Most Google stuff seems to be about "you pretty much have to control your instrument humidity" within some optimal range, or don't take your good instrument if you can't control humidity. Maybe changes people hear are mostly subtle (buzzes) but not usually major (seam separations, neck bows).

I just wonder how so many great instruments survived over so many years before instrument humidifiers came on the scene.

Not a real point or question to this post I guess, and I totally understand that (happily) many musicians have better hearing and are more attuned to sound nuances than me. But is humidifying to fine ranges maybe like CBD or Glucosomine with a placebo effect?

Anyway, I called the person who made my mando (50 years in the business) and am going to trust his suggestion (paraphrased), take it, play it, have fun, and don't sweat it. He just didn't expect there would be any major impact to the mando; didn't even mention having to adjust the action (no biggie if that is needed.

Cheers all,

Bill

I am pretty sure Bill Monroe didn't own a hygrometer. If I had a high end mando I would probably pay more attention to this. I think if you avoid rapid changes in temperature and humidity nothing bad will happen. If I were traveling I would bring a lesser instrument not because of humidity but handling and theft

[Mandobart]

Obsessing over relative humidity is one of many topics the internet now allows us to find, repeat and argue over fiction, folklore, fantasy and some fact.

I grew up at 7000' elevation in northern NM. My dad kept his Martin classical guitar out on a stand for decades (no humidification whatsoever). My grandpa's 1880's violin spent over a century in that environment, also with no humidification (I'm playing and humidifying it now in WA). While I lived in NM I never gave humidity a thought for my guitar and violin. Nothing ever happened to any of these instruments.

One time (here in eastern WA) I tried a dampit sponge and rubber device in my violin f-hole. I could tell it worked because the wood absorbed moisture, expanded and snapped a string.

Now I have 24 stringed instruments, hanging on the wall of my insulated, temperature and humidity controlled basement music room. No issues.

I'm not against attempting to maintain a stable, normal temperature and humidity for my instruments. But I think (know) there are people in forum-land who, IMO, take it to an absurd paranoia.

[Mark Gunter]

I’ve been fortunate for 50+ years, paying no attention to this, but I’ve lived my life in Louisiana and Texas. I’ve seen many instruments with cracked and warped parts over the years, don’t know what they’d been through, but now of my 3 dozen or more instruments I’ve owned have suffered.

Bottom line, if you’re worried about, do something about it, expertly.

[Bazz Jass]

I grew up in a damp old house, and my room was on the damp side of the house. Got used to having to change the strings every second week. When coated strings came along in the mid 90s, that was a game changer.

But my instruments always felt damp. The frets went green. The latches on my cases corroded.

These days I own a modern home. I have 17 instruments on hangers in my music room. The humidity is generally around 50%. It can get down to 40 or up to 60, but I can adjust the AC to fix things. My F4 is the most sensitive of all the instruments. It tunes differently at 40% than it does at 60%.

But my strings last for years. The instruments feel dry (not too dry), and all is well.

[Rob Roy]

Hi Bill, I'm glad you're getting a chance to do the inner passage trip to Alaska. It's gorgeous and the glaciers are receding at an alarming rate.

I don't think you need to worry about your mandolin and higher humidity. From my reading on several forums it seems that extremely low humidity and rapid changes to it in particular are much more hazardous. Guitars with their thin spruce tops seem to be more susceptible to cracks and seem separation. Higher humidity may increase your action a light amount as the top swells (although I haven't had that problem in Florida) and the tone may be a little less sparkly.

Now if you're talking a $10k instrument, you might want to consider snagging an old Eastman for a travel mando. Enjoy your trip!

[Chuck Leyda]

Here in Minnesota where the heat runs for 6 months and our mid winter indoor RH is around 20% we need to consider humidity. But I don't want to obsess and instruments are relatively hardy. Here's what I've found:

-Instruments do best in their cases to avoid sudden humidity shifts.

-A whole room humidifier and a hygrometer is the basis of getting into that 40%+ RH range. Put the hygrometer above the cases. Don't rely on the RH on your humidifier as they are usually off. Use the hygrometer to determine RH. I try to keep the RH between 40-45%. 35% isn't going to really kill you. 55% would be ok but then there's more of a shift in RH when you travel (especially to a hotel).

-Each instrument gets a zip-loc baggie with a few slits cut out and a regular old sponge. If I'm traveling or if we get a polar vortex (40 below happens here) I keep the sponge damp. It goes in the headstock part of the case and stays away from the body. It's damp but well wrung out and cannot drip at all. Repeat when it gets dry (usually a couple days) until you get back home to the 40-45%RH.

Cheap and, so far, effective.

[pops1]

I also live in the midwest, wood heat and dry in winter, tho I keep it 40-50%. I also play on a boat cruise on the Mississippi river in the summer, been doing it for a long time. Hot and humid!! I keep my place around 60% if I can, but on a cruise it will be 90's temp and humidity. I play my good mandolin because that's what I bought it for. In all that time I have to chase the action, but no cracks or other problems. Had some problems in winter going to a gig and the sun hitting the case thru the window, that was a drag, but otherwise no problems taking my instruments with me. I have also driven cross country several times and into different environments with no problems. Usually gone a week or two. I'd say take it and enjoy it.

[allenhopkins]

Like so many other care issues, humidity doesn't make much difference -- until it does. I was told about an expensive classical guitar whose top cracked after one night left out under a Christmas tree. An outlier case, but real nonetheless.

Generally, if you're comfortable with the temperature and humidity, so is your mandolin. Cruise ship cabins are climate-controlled, as a rule, and not subject to temp or humidity extremes. If you keep it cased when not in use, and don't leave it lying in a deck chair or stand in the bow a la De Caprio in Titanic, with salt spray washing over you and the wind in your hair, betcha you'll be OK.

Instruments, to over-generalize, have to be pretty sturdy to take storage, transportation, and actual playing. And, yes, there are thousands of mandolins that sat in non-climate-controlled storage, under full string tension, for years -- and emerged unscathed.

On the other hand, why take a chance if you don't have to? A case humidifier, or some silica gel packets (not in contact with the instrument's surface) if it's dampish, are inexpensive precautions. Mainly, keep in in the case when you're not playing it, and don't take unnecessary risks.

[Tom Haywood]

I don't see any need to "finely control humidity". Keeping the wood from drying out to the point of cracking is the main issue, and that is usually a fairly slow process. Putting the instrument in a humidified case when relative humidity is below, say, 40% for several days or more, should keep it healthy. So, it depends on where you live, as well as how much heat and air conditioning you use in the house. And it depends on the particular instrument - how it is constructed and how valuable it is to you. I've repaired quite a few guitars and mandolins that cracked from being dry, but I haven't seen one that cracked from being kept in a very high humidity environment, except for flooded houses. High heat combined with higher humidity can result in rapid glue failure, i.e. leaving the instrument in your car in the hot weather, and the instrument may crack in places as it comes apart.

[urobouros]

My only issue with humidity was a Taylor 814 with an existing crack in the seam of the top that I had at my office for a bit. I should have known better but alas, live & learn Fortunately, the repair is incredibly stable. As is another right by the lower left bout... In the PNW, it's usually an issue of over humidification but I'm blessed with a very stable temp/rh in my music room & haven't had an issue either on the wall or in cases in the attic.

[Elb2000]

My old house in Wisconsin only tolerates mid 20% RH when it’s very cold outside. I use Oasis in-case humidifiers, which hold the case RH to about 45% when measured with a wireless humidity sensor. Unlike temperature effects, wood is fairly slow to lose and gain moisture. When I used to leave my mandolins uncased the mandolin bodies would shrink and I get some string buzzing. The worst is my octave, which can become unplayable. If I traveled to a dry location, I’d bring a humidifier and a very small amount of distilled water and case the mandolin when not playing.