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Thread: Struggling with left hand

  1. #1

    Default Struggling with left hand

    Hi Guys
    I'm pretty new to the Mandolin so realise that practice will help but I'm struggling with my left hand positioning. Firstly holding the mandolin is causing soreness in my joint above my index finger but I'm also struggling to reach even some of the 3 finger chords, let alone 4 finger chords. I'd say that my fingers are average size for a 6 foot bloke. I'm not at all despondent but could do with some reassurance that it will get better with practice.
    Cheers
    Martin

  2. #2

    Default Re: Struggling with left hand

    Hello Martin,

    With left hand issues, it's best have your left hand address the fingerboard at an angle, much like a violinist does at a 45 or 50 degree (or more) angle. Quite unlike a guitarist that mainly addresses at a 90 degree angle. That's all I have for now.

    Len B.
    Clearwater, FL

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  4. #3
    Play on FredK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Struggling with left hand

    Welcome to the Cafe, Martin. And, welcome to your journey with the mandolin. It sounds like you need to work on your posture - not just sitting with the mandolin but, also, how you hold it. I started out learning from Mike Marshall's lessons on ArtistWorks. The great thing about Mike's teaching is that he starts at the very beginning with how to hold the mandolin. There are other mandolin resources and lessons on-line that will help you. I'm sure they will be mentioned in this thread. If you can get in-person with an instructor, that would be a big plus. I highly recommend that you work on this now while the mandolin is still new to you so you can learn to enjoy practicing and playing.

    Being new to the mandolin, stick with 2 finger chords for now. It takes time to build up strength and flexibility to get to the 3 and 4 finger chords. Again, posture and positioning of the mandolin neck and your left hand are critical to note cleanly and avoid injury. I've been playing for 5 years now. While I can do most of the 4 finger chords, I choose to go with 2 or 3 most of the time. Then, again, I'm not a bluegrasser - though I love listening and watching it - so the 4 finger chord chops are not big on my list.

    Lastly, you need to make sure you have good setup on your mandolin. A good luthier can help with that. Also, there's Rob Meldrum's online book that you can get for the asking. A quick search for him on MC will pull up the thread.

    There are others who will jump in with excellent advice and tips. This is a great place to learn and expand your journey into this wonderful instrument. Stick with it and enjoy the journey.
    Last edited by FredK; Mar-20-2022 at 3:40pm. Reason: changed 4 chord to 4 finger chord
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  6. #4

    Default Re: Struggling with left hand

    An instructor could help a lot. They can see and fix things that you will fight for months on your own.

    As far as hand size goes look at Mike Marshall, Jethro Burns, Peter Ostrouschko, David Grismann, John Duffy or Bill Monroe. None of these guys were or are petite and Jethro in particular was known for having larger than normal hands.

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  8. #5

    Default Re: Struggling with left hand

    Thanks.
    I did as you said & ended up emailing Rob Meldrum at rob.meldrum@gmail.com, with the word "ebook" in the title. I got a lovely email back, with a copy of the book attached!
    I'll look forward to reading it.
    Cheers

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  10. #6
    small instrument, big fun Dan in NH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Struggling with left hand

    Are you using a strap? I'm gonna guess and say you're not. Am I right? I bet I am.

    I bought a leather strap when I bought my mandolin, but I've never used it. Instead I use a leather boot lace that I bought at the grocery store.

    Your mandolin should be able to hang from its strap in perfect playing position with neither of your hands touching the mandolin, just the crook of your right elbow.

    Consider an arm rest and a Tone-Gard, then buy them before you talk yourself out of them.

    Regarding chords, I can't finger them, either. I'm focusing on single note melody.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MartP View Post
    Thanks.
    I did as you said & ended up emailing Rob Meldrum at rob.meldrum@gmail.com, with the word "ebook" in the title. I got a lovely email back, with a copy of the book attached!
    I'll look forward to reading it.
    Cheers
    Ah! That will be time well spent.
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    And still saving my nickels & dimes & bottle caps & breakfast cereal box tops for my lifetime mandolin.

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    Default Re: Struggling with left hand

    This guy has several good video on mandolin ergonomics: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...whA5d9322tQhPg

    Holding the neck up at a 30-45 degree angle might be easier on the left hand, but it also affects the right hand attack. That might be good or bad, depending on the style and sound you’re looking for. Compton and some other Monroe stylists espouse close to 90 degrees/level.
    Unless there are physical limitations, I think it’s just a matter of practice. Finger stretches might help initially, but you’ll get there before you know it!

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    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Struggling with left hand

    Another frequent culprit is a poorly cut nut. If none of the excellent advice above solves it, it might help to have an experienced builder look at it.
    Gibson A-Junior snakehead (Keep on pluckin'!)

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  16. #9
    Registered User mbruno's Avatar
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    Default Re: Struggling with left hand

    I see this all the time with new students. If you're interested in a video lesson, connect with me at https://mattcbruno.com/lesson-information/. Happy to do a free 5 minute quick check to help with this particular issue if your interested.

    Firstly holding the mandolin is causing soreness in my joint above my index finger
    Couple potential issues that could be causing this:

    1. Too tight of a grip with your left hand
    Start by placing your finger on a string at a fret (lets say 3rd fret for argument sake). Start by just touching the string - not pressing at all - and picking. You'll get a dead note of course since you're not pressing the string down. Slowly increase the pressure on the finger while picking - once you get a clean note, stop. That's all the pressure you need. If that's less than what you were doing - this is probably the issue

    2. Having your thumb way out of position
    Your thumb generally (though not always) should be about flush with your first or second finger. That's not hard and fast, but a pretty good generalization. What I mean here is you should be able to draw an imaginary line from your thumb and touch your first or second finger with it. If your thumb is parallel to the neck, that's no good.

    3. Using the wrong fingers to fret notes
    Probably not the issue here - but worth noting. Sometimes using the wrong finger can cause soreness because you need to do acrobatics to get your finger where it needs to be. Check your fingering to make sure this is not the case (a teacher / coach would be best for that)

    but I'm also struggling to reach even some of the 3 finger chords, let alone 4 finger chords.
    This makes me think that the answer to both issues is your thumb is out of position.

    Below are a few pictures showing what I mean on the Thumb that might help

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    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Struggling with left hand

    Watch some video, Don Julin, Pete Martin, Mike Marshall or Chris Thule. And/or find an instructor to get you started right. It’s a long journey, be comfortable from the start.
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    Default Re: Struggling with left hand

    Mike Marshall's course on ArtistWorks is great for this. Mike caught a left-hand position error i was making and quickly corrected it before the bad habit solidified.

    Definitely get a strap as others have said. I know it's not always as fun as busting out fiddle tunes when you practice but focusing on your posture and hand positioning will pay dividends down the road.

  21. #12

    Default Re: Struggling with left hand

    Hi
    Thanks for your reply. Yes, I have a leather strap on my Eastman but not on the cheapo one that I am using to learn on. I think an arm rest & tone guard may help. I'll look into this.
    Cheers
    Martin

  22. #13

    Default Re: Struggling with left hand

    Thanks Matt. This is really helpful, particularly the pics. I'll spend a bit more time on it & maybe give you a shout if I cannot fix the problem. I'm currently learning a lot of background stuff including finger strengthening & stretching exercise . . . so hopefully some of this will help me fix the problem.
    Cheers

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    Registered User Steve 2E's Avatar
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    Default Re: Struggling with left hand

    Quote Originally Posted by MartP View Post
    Yes, I have a leather strap on my Eastman but not on the cheapo one that I am using to learn on.
    Martin, I'm just curious, but why aren't you using the Eastman to learn on?

  24. #15

    Default Re: Struggling with left hand

    Good question!
    I’ve got an old BlueMoon which I’ve marked up with a permanent marker to help me while learning. I only recently purchased the Eastman, which is such a lovely instrument that I’m almost scared to use it. So I’m learning on the BlueMoon & then regularly switching over to the Eastman once I’ve got to grips with the bit I’m learning.

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  26. #16

    Default Re: Struggling with left hand

    Don’t be afraid of the Eastman…
    “Love the one you’re with”

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    Registered User Steve 2E's Avatar
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    Default Re: Struggling with left hand

    I would go full time on the Eastman. I would imagine the set up is better and it's probably a little easier to play. If you need to make reference points maybe use stickers or masking tape. It's gonna get dings and scratches, that's just a part of playing. Use the better tool!

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Struggling with left hand

    The strap issue is specific to the idea that your left hand should not carry any of the weight of the mandolin. When you let go of the neck, the mandolin should not move. This may be happening even without your knowing it. Test your self, see if the neck changes position when you let go. It is a strong indicator you may be holding the neck in place, which can make your grip too tight, and can just plumb wear out your fingers.

    Using a strap makes this easier, but note, even without a strap it is quite possible and preferred to hold it in such a way that the neck position is not held in place by your left hand.
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    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Struggling with left hand

    Hey, Martin, here's another thought.

    If you're a guitarist, you're probably used to keeping the neck almost horizontal.

    With mando, a diagonal neck angle forces your elbow up and out, which changes how you hold your wrist, and that changes how your fingers land on the fretboard.

    I'm not a pro, so I'll defer to them. But a more diagonal neck angle does help me.
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  32. #20
    Registered User mbruno's Avatar
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    Default Re: Struggling with left hand

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    Hey, Martin, here's another thought.

    If you're a guitarist, you're probably used to keeping the neck almost horizontal.

    With mando, a diagonal neck angle forces your elbow up and out, which changes how you hold your wrist, and that changes how your fingers land on the fretboard.

    I'm not a pro, so I'll defer to them. But a more diagonal neck angle does help me.
    Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean, but your elbow shouldn't be going up and out at all. Generally it's going to be right near your body the whole time. If I'm missing what you're saying, I'd love to see a picture of what you're talking about.
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  33. #21
    Registered User mbruno's Avatar
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    Default Re: Struggling with left hand

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    The strap issue is specific to the idea that your left hand should not carry any of the weight of the mandolin. When you let go of the neck, the mandolin should not move. This may be happening even without your knowing it. Test your self, see if the neck changes position when you let go. It is a strong indicator you may be holding the neck in place, which can make your grip too tight, and can just plumb wear out your fingers.

    Using a strap makes this easier, but note, even without a strap it is quite possible and preferred to hold it in such a way that the neck position is not held in place by your left hand.
    Agreed here. For what it's worth, I've been putting my strap around the headstock between the tuners instead of on the scroll. The main reason I do this is balance. When the strap is on the scroll and you let go with your left hand, the mandolin often dips as you mentioned. When it's on the headstock, it never moves so there's no weight in the left hand at all. No issues with tuning btw
    Information on lessons, gigs, and misc musical stuff: www.mattcbruno.com
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