Is a new mandolin the answer?

[SaintlyTom]

I have a beautiful, rich, warm, oval-hole Pava. In quiet sessions or intimate jams (3 or 4 others max) this things is simply gorgeous. If I were a recording musician, this would be a perfect studio mandolin...

However...more and more often I'm finding myself playing in a bustling pub or next to a confident fiddle player at an open mic. Suddenly my lovely delicate mandolin can't be heard. Worse than that is that i'll try to compensate and play harder which does neither me nor the mandolin justice.

My goal isn't so much that I feel the need to be heard by others, but what I find is when I can't hear myself i make mistakes or hit wrong notes that I would never normally make. My last few performances have left me feeling disappointed because I felt a little let down by the shortcomings of this specific design. i'm not excluding my ability here, I know a lot of the time the musician is the issue. But when surrounding noise suddenly affects my proficiency I don't feel unreasonable asking questions of my mandolin.

Long story short, I'm finding myself saving my money for a new f-hole to accompany the oval hole. Is an additional f-hole mandolin the answer? In other words, will an f-hole give me what i'm looking for in a louder jam scenario compared to the oval-hole?

[Charlie Bernstein]

Well — of course!

Folks at a sports car or comic book forum might not think so. But at Mando Cafe? A foregone conclusion. A new mandolin is always the answer!

[Bazz Jass]

The short answer is yes...

More than just being louder, an F-hole mandolin dominates in frequencies that an oval hole doesn't, and for that reason is better heard in say a bluegrass mix.

John Hamlett described it well in a post here, many years back:

"As for the whole projection thing, a lot of that has to do with the frequencies that are strong in the particular mandolin. If a mandolin has strong responce in the frequencies that are not being dominated by the rest of the instruments in a band, it will "cut".
Bluegrass bands tend to leave a bunch of mid-range "space" unused, and "F" hole mandolins tend to have the frequencies that fill that space better than oval hole mandolins."

[Bacfire]

I think the answer is "maybe." Others can better explain, but some mandolins are strong in midrange frequencies that cut through the din of a jam and as some say, find their own space among the other instruments. But just any f-hole won't do it. Just finding a loud f-hole won't do it either.

I know what you mean about hard picking cramping your technique. That drove me nuts for the longest time and made for many a frustrating ride home from festivals and jams where I failed to play at anywhere near the level of which I knew I was capable. I tried rigging up some crude eBay bluetooth pickup gear to make a personal mando-monitor to better hear myself, but it was cumbersome and aggravating. My Northfield Gen 4 fixed most of that. In a quiet room, it's no louder than my other mando and doesn't quite have the overtones and tonal complexity that I prefer. In a jam, though, it does its job and cuts through in a way that I'd not experienced before.

I'm sure you can find that characteristic at a much lower price point if you learn what to listen for and try out a bunch of mandos. Or for Gilchrist money I'm sure you can have it all!

[rcc56]

Well, it might help somewhat. But as a long time, albeit more or less retired performing musician, I'll say that even the most powerful mandolin with the most cutting tone cannot compete with an aggressive fiddler or banjo player with a strong instrument.

And crowded jam sessions can be a no-man's land for a mandolinist with a delicate touch.

That said, I can speak to some of the differences between f-hole and oval hole mandolins, but only in terms of tendencies and generalities, because every instrument is different.

F-hole mandolins tend to be brighter and more percussive, and have a quicker decay.
Oval hole mandolins tend to be warmer, less percussive, sustain a note longer, and have a slower, more even decay.

That said, I have heard many f-hole mandolins that were not very bright and pretty "thumpy," especially if they were made 15 or more years ago, when building trends were quite different than they are now. And my main gigging mandolin is a bright, percussive oval hole Gibson A-4 that sounds more like some f-hole mandolins than it sounds like most of its oval A kindred.

I'll also mention that the best miking mandolin that I ever had was a Lyon & Healy style B oval hole mandolin. I no longer have that one, though.

[Nashville]

You could just add a quality pickup and get a small quality acoustic amp, easy to setup and lug around. That will give you enough boost in such situation. Then you don't need to struggle or find another mandolin.

[Marcus CA]

Depending on where you are in New Hampshire, it might be worth taking a trip down to Music Emporium to try a few f-hole mandolins out. Even if they cost more than you want to spend, you should be able to get a sense of what you sound like playing with that different soundhole shape and see if you want to go in that direction.

[Jill McAuley]

Only problem I see here is that you won't actually know that the f-hole mandolin you buy will out perform your Pava until you actually try it out at a session - what if it doesn't? If volume is a priority then maybe a resonator mandolin would be the way to go:

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/185016#185016

NFI on my part, but something like this would definitely be louder!

[A-board]

Silverangel Econo A from Ken Ratcliff. Powerful across the spectrum.
He’s great to work with.

[Kevin Briggs]

The short answer is... yes. The much more complex and deliberate answer is... yes!

[mandroid]

Answer is N+1, as expectable.

[JeffD]

Is a new mandolin the answer?

Yes. Of course.

[Nashville]

On more than one occasion I have purchased a new mandolin and then ended up disappointed. Be careful. It gets expensive to take that hit.

[jaycat]

I would be cautious as well. A few years ago, I got frustrated that my concert-size guitar couldn't be heard in a bluegrass jam, so I bought a dreadnaught, even though I really don't like dreadnaughts. Well guess what, it could be heard marginally better but not so's you'd notice. So I sold the dread and went back to a smaller guitar, which I love playing.

[Mainer73]

Whereabouts in NH are you? I'm in Maine, but near to parts of NH and looking for others to play with. Working on getting a small ME/NH jam group together.
And I have an F hole mandolin you can try.

[journeybear]

Is a new mandolin the answer? Generally speaking, the answer is always yes, isn't it? Even if it doesn't solve the issue, you'll still have another mandolin. And that's always a plus. Generally speaking.

As much as I like the suggestion of installing a pickup and using a portable mini amp, it could cause problems. Some others may feel threatened, or intruded upon, and may even retaliate by escalating with their own. That won't end well.

And also, buying another mandolin that you think will solve the problem but ends up not quite doing so could indeed be an expensive way to not solve it. Even if you have a nice new axe, if it doesn't do what you'd hoped, you might feel frustrated and rueful.

There is always the banjolin option, if it fits the type of music you're playing. It will definitely be a different sound, but you'll be heard.

If you decide to get an F model, go to a store where you can try some out, and bring your Pava for comparison. Make sure the F will do what you want, as well as you can.

Perhaps heavier strings will help. Or raising the action.

Good luck!

PS: My experience indicates that people playing fiddles and banjos all too often do not know how to lay back or lay out altogether when they're not taking a solo. This can be infuriating when it's your turn to take a lead. I do not have an answer for how to deal with this. Fortunately, my teens Gibson A is good and loud, but still, it's supposed to be a time of cooperation, not competition.

[tmsweeney]

Yes a new mandolin is ALWAYS the answer to all of life's problems.

[Davey]

The issue is whether or not you can hear yourself playing, everyone else can probably hear you perfectly well. I play roundl hole mandolins & if I get stuck next to a noisy Instrument, I change seats. Nobody seems to be offended.

I tried a good f hole Mandolin and I couldn't hear myself at all.

[Lucas]

I may have a simpler solution to your problem. Try experimenting with different picks of different materials and thicknesses before investing in expensive equipment. You may find some picks produce louder sound than others.

[Charles E.]

Nothing wrong with having a matched set.....

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/184600#184600

NFI

[Bill McCall]

Some places and people are too loud. You can ask other players to use less volume but you won’t reduce the pub noise. If you’re playing acoustically, a resonator will cut through. So will amplifiers

New mandos are a correct answer.

[Steve 2E]

Yes! Maybe a Mike Black with a side sound port may help you hear yourself a little better. I have no experience with his instruments, but I'm quite interested.
http://blackmandolins.com/a2z-mandolins.html

[Jonathan Reinhardt]

As has been mentioned, the dynamic you are encountering may not be resolvable with an f-hole mandolin. You are going to get a different projection, and probably not much more volume from that of your very fine mandolin. In fact you may even be able to hear less of your own contribution. Decibels could be measured (your mandolin, an f-hole mandolin, the ensemble of instruments, the loudest of the instruments you are playing together with) and I think you would find that you are just overwhelmed in volume in the situation you describe.

If the group dynamic cannot adjust (even orchestras are able to) sadly you should seek a smaller group, or a group of musicians more able to adjust to produce a balanced dynamic. Pubs are what they are and if you enjoy playing at them, you really should investigate some type of sound reinforcement. They are very noisy environments, and usually remain so continuously throughout any music being offered.

That said, all mandolins seem to have different voices, and f-hole mandolins have different voices than oval hole mandolins, for sure. I am very glad to be able to have both to satisfy my playing needs.

[KenD]

Always good to have another Mandolin but the answer is that this will not necessarily resolve the problem. Even if you try out another mandolin in a shop, you can’t really tell how it will perform in a loud session. One of my mandolins isn’t the loudest or has the best tone but seems to ‘cut though’ better than one which is slightly louder, Agree it is difficult to play confidently if you can’t hear yourself. Part of the solution is to try and choose where you sit, so I avoid sitting next to the louder instruments such as a banjo or fiddle player. Another factor is the room itself, background noise will affect what you hear (e.g. sitting near the bar) and some parts of a room just project sound whilst other parts seem to absorb the sound more. Technique and the type of pick also contributes to volume - I do play with a pick which is much thicker compared to when I first started playing and that certainly helps. One style of mandolin I’ve never used, is one where a small sound hole has been cut on the upper side of the mandolin to project some of the sound back up to the player - interested to hear from anyone who has experience of this mandolin design.

[Beanzy]

Have you used up all of your technique improvement possibilities yet? I've been taught & am still working on, getting a bigger sound without just hammering the instrument harder. When I get it right it really works and the instrument really finds it's space in the room. I've found that often less & more relaxed gets a lot more out of the instrument. But I also know it's really easy for me to slip back into the more effort approach, which can be counter productive especially when playing fast.

But a new instrument is always nice too.