Derrington signed A5l MasterModel?

[Tedrow]

Help me out y’all

I have 2000 A5l Derrington signed Mandolin. The lable indicates Master Model

Is it a Master Model?

Bob

[pheffernan]

There is confusion in that Gibson labels lots of mandolins Master Model (which this one is) while also having that term as a designation for a specific model (which to my understanding this one is not).

[Tedrow]

Ok, mine IS a sho’nuf Master Model

[Tedrow]

So, to clarify, my mandolin is the “real” Master Model?

[pheffernan]

So, to clarify, my mandolin is the “real” Master Model?

To my understanding, it is not. I believe those models are made with Adirondack tops, varnish finishes, etc. The L series Ferns have Sitka tops and a lacquer finish.

[lenf12]

And my understanding is that the true Master Models are all F models with a signed Loar as their ultimate standard of measure. I haven't heard of a Gibson Master Model A-5L meeting the varnished Adi specifications. Charlie Derrington's signature may lend a degree of exclusivity but not up to the stratospheric prices of a RSDMM for instance. It's all about the specs. IMO

I also think that Gibson, Inc. is responsible for all of this confusion because they had a bunch of excess mandolin Master Model labels. So in a fit of corporate frugality, they used them on every mandolin manufactured and sold. Imho Maybe someday they will update their labels, but that would be so historically incorrect that I have my doubts...gotta love 'em

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Hendrik Ahrend]

In the Mandozine-Interview Charlie explained:

The reason all Gibson mandolins have the Master Model label is a bit cumbersome to explain. But I'll certainly give it a try.

Gibson invented the F-5. The Master Model instruments originally included the H-5, L-5, F-5, and K-5. Of course the H-5 and K-5 were dropped from the line and the L-5 followed a different evolutionary path.

I think, what I'm trying to say is, Gibson has a long history of producing the F-5 Master Model. The Loars were Master Models as were the Ferns of the 20s. Our high-end mandolins have a tradition of having that Master Model line label designation. It is historically correct to have that label in every F-5 style instrument we build. Really, would you be happy if your Fern didn't have the historically correct label?

I know it is a bit confusing to have a Master Model line and a Master Model. But, that is the historically correct thing to do. I know there would have been much unhappiness with our customers and dealers, if we didn't have the correct label in all of our mandolins and all of our mandolins trace their history back to one model. The alternative would be to have historically incorrect labels in all of our mandolins save one. I think it is quite easy to remember, if you look on the label for the model designation (and not on the printed portion of the label) it will be quite easy to tell the difference. Also remember, unless I personally sign the upper label, it's not a Master Model.

The only other alternative would be to produce only one model of mandolin, which, I think we would all agree, wouldn't be feasible.

Whew!! I hope that answer will suffice.

[lenf12]

From a buyer's or seller's point if view, if you specify the model designation, all potential interested parties should understand what they are getting into imho

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[f5loar]

With the explanation from Charlie D. above, it makes sense the A5L which was re-introduced from the original Master Model A-5 from 1923. The fact it has the MM label and a signed label proves the point it was meant to be in the MM line just as the original A5 was considered a MM worthy of a signature label. In contrast , the Loar era Tenor Lute did have a MM label but not a signature label, so it was not considered part of the MM line that got the signature label. I'm pretty sure those A5L were lacquer not varnish. I guess it was possible it could have been special ordered with varnish, but the MM label would show a V on the label.

[KMaynard]

All Gibson mandolins are master models, but not all master models are a master model.

[Tedrow]

My head spins wildly but I understand.

[Tedrow]

So how do we know if this offering is a master model or a Master Model?

I understand the difference but from listing notes I can’t discern

I have no relationship with this listing. It is not mine



https://reverb.com/item/1173104-gibs...ontent=1173104

[Mark Seale]

The serial number starts with a V.

[MikeEdgerton]

As everything old is new again, here are some past discussions on this same subject.

[Tedrow]

So all Master Models have varnish finish as indicated by the V prefix?

That certainty will make ID easy enough.

[Tedrow]

The occasional newbie will need the sage advice from the collective cognoscenti

[KMaynard]

I know this can be and is very confusing. But, I think if you look at the "Style" entry on the label and it's just "F5", for the most part, I think this indicates a Master Model style. I know some of the early 2000's master model styles were lacquer, so I don't know if their serial started with V or not. Sometimes the "Acoustic Engineer" will write something on the labels also that help identify. I think this really does show how small a shop Gibson has been with all the customizations over the years and variations of their standard models. But, if I'm trying to identify a style Master Model, the F5 in that style area is a good indication, followed by serial numbers and overall mandolin attributes. Sometimes you have to use all these things to help validate.

[J.Albert]

There was a time when THEY ALL had "Gibson Master Model" printed on the label.

I used to have a 2000 Flatiron Festival F, produced at the Gibson factory in Nashville, with "The Gibson Master Model" label inside.

My 2006 Goldrush also has "The Gibson Master Model" label, and it obviously isn't a "Master Model".

Whether a particular mandolin is "A Master Model" (i.e., varnish finish, etc., that is intended to be a close model of the F-5 Loars of the twenties) is handwritten ON the label.

Dem's da rules.

OP asked:
"So all Master Models have varnish finish as indicated by the V prefix?"

Nope.
A varnished Fern isn't "A Master Model", but it will still have "The Gibson Master Model" label.

Seems to me that at some point not too long ago, Gibson changed the label so that it doesn't read "The Gibson Master Model" any longer. What does it say now?

[rcc56]

Since Gibson used Master Model labels indiscriminately, they created a condition which essentially makes the "Master Model" designation meaningless.
What does mean something is that at the time this mandolin was made, I'm pretty sure that the A-5L was the top of the A model line.

[sgarrity]

I really wish Gibson would make/have made a true A5 Master Model. A real copy of the Griffith A5 might make me reach for my wallet.....

[Bill McCall]

And now it’s in the classifieds.

[pheffernan]

I really wish Gibson would make/have made a true A5 Master Model. A real copy of the Griffith A5 might make me reach for my wallet.....

They exist, but they aren't coming from Gibson.

[dhergert]

For what it's worth, Gibson also includes the same bass-side Master Model label on the F-9, which also identifies the model and SN of the instrument. My 2002 F-9 also has no signed treble-side label, but I don't know about more recent F-9 models -- given the explanations above, I wouldn't expect to see one.

[MikeEdgerton]

For what it's worth, Gibson also includes the same bass-side Master Model label on the F-9, which also identifies the model and SN of the instrument. My 2002 F-9 also has no signed treble-side label, but I don't know about more recent F-9 models -- given the explanations above, I wouldn't expect to see one.

My 2005 F5-G has the same label.

I remember when this program was started in the early 2000's. This thread has an explanation by Joe Vest of what they planned on the Master Model being. I seem to recall that they would be fitted with an RFID chip as well but I can't remember where that came from. That may or may not have ended up in the final products.

[rcc56]

It appears that the gist of this conversation is as follows:

There are Gibsons with master model labels which are master models.
And there are Gibsons with master model labels which are not master models.

I know that over the years, Gibson has made many mandolins without master model labels which are not master models.

And it has also been suggested that there are mandolins not made by Gibson, with or without master model labels, that are master models.

So it seems to me that the only thing lacking here are Gibsons without master model labels which are master models.
And mandolins not made by Gibson, with or without master model labels, which are not master models.

Which brings to mind an old song [recorded without mandolin or master model label]: "Ball of Confusion."