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Thread: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

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    Default Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    I meant to get over there and check it out, but the day got away from me:

    https://www.retrofret.com/product.asp?ProductID=10312

    I can’t quite justify buying something this good as a sometime mandolinist (primarily guitar, with tenor banjo on the side) and I have a very nice Mid Mo M-0 that I bought new at Mandolin Brothers back in 2000. But I am working on rationalisations…

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    Mandolingerer Bazz Jass's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    That whole ideal of taking something back to the factory every xxx years to make it all shiny and new! Someone loved that mandolin a lot, but probably didn't do it any favours in the long run where originality has become more desirable.

    Bet it sounds great though!

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    Registered User Hendrik Ahrend's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    Okay, but 6k for an F4 with multiple refin, non-original finish, no pickguard and non-original case and the debatable Virzi seems a bit optimistic IMHO – even if the magic name was mentioned more than once in the application prose.

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    That was typical procedure back then to send instruments back to the makers for rehab. Remember there was no such concept as a vintage collectible instrument even as recently as the 1960s possibly into the 1970s. And many repair people thought it part of the process to renew the finishes and they thought they were doing their customers a big favor or the customers could have requested that as part of the package.

    I had a friend whose main guitar was a 1920s L-1 flattop that had the dreaded 1960s cherry sunburst refinish. Guitar sounded good but looked odd and certainly lost a bunch of vintage value. Even this RetroFret F-4 looks odd to my eyes as well. I would love to play it if I can get down to Brooklyn.

    Also, I am curious how the Virzi would affect the tone. I played a lovely Loar with Virzi a bunch of years ago at RetroFret whose tone I loved. But I am not sure that an oval hole needs more overtones. Then again proof is in the playing.
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    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    Okay, I think it looks cool. And like the detailed description.

    Also, don't think the price is too high with the added Virzi. At least through a dealer.
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    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Also, I am curious how the Virzi would affect the tone. I played a lovely Loar with Virzi a bunch of years ago at RetroFret whose tone I loved. But I am not sure that an oval hole needs more overtones. Then again proof is in the playing.
    There are those who think that a Virzi adds to ovals and subtracts from f-holes.
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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    Quote Originally Posted by pheffernan View Post
    There are those who think that a Virzi adds to ovals and subtracts from f-holes.
    And I would guess there are also those who think the opposite.
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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    And I would guess there are also those who think the opposite.
    Of course. I’m just speaking of (and not for) some builders whose opinions I respect on such matters.

    Here is a video that has been posted repeatedly on the subject:

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    No problem. And I was just commenting that there are lots of opinions out there from all sources. I certainly don’t have an opinion (in this case) on any particular side. And, of course, the proof is in the playing.
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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    I try to judge them impartially, if that's possible.

    The most powerful Gibson I ever played was a Loar with a Virzi. Surprised the heck out of me. However, none of the few other Loars I have played, some with Virzi, some without, were that powerful. On the average, I thought that the non-Virzi mandolins were usually a little stronger.

    I only recall playing one oval hole with a Virzi, and it didn't make enough of an impression on me to raise my eyebrows. It wasn't bad, though.

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    The Loar I played years ago—and I got to play it for about 1/2 hour straight—had a very complex tone and I felt I had heard things coming out of that mandolin that I hadn’t heard from others I played. However, they did not have another Virzi-less Loar to compare nor have I ever played a vintage oval with Virzi.
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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    I reckon they do happen...here's a Virzi Loar with a nice balance volume and tone...and plenty of both...Click image for larger version. 

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    too many strings

  17. #13

    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    En route to Retrofret. Will check out the F4 just to know what it sounds like. I might (might) be able to rationalize buying the 1940 A1 or the 1930 A0 they have there. The F4 is out of my budget unfortunately.

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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    Played the F4 and it was wonderful. I don’t know enough to opine about the Virzi, but the sound was amazing as was the playing feel. An aspirational instrument (at least for me), as was an F10 (actually, maybe an F12; anyway, it was black and sounded great and played like butter…but it was $17K…).

    But I still made it a NMD/MAS day and bought a 1924 A Junior Snakehead with OHSC. New thread with pictures coming shortly.

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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    Quote Originally Posted by L50EF15 View Post
    Played the F4 and it was wonderful. I don’t know enough to opine about the Virzi, but the sound was amazing as was the playing feel. An aspirational instrument (at least for me), as was an F10 (actually, maybe an F12; anyway, it was black and sounded great and played like butter…but it was $17K…).

    But I still made it a NMD/MAS day and bought a 1924 A Junior Snakehead with OHSC. New thread with pictures coming shortly.
    The Virzi's tighten the top and I love em! They still have the old F-10, I offered them a great price in 2012! 10 years later-WoW.

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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    As for the F-10, I guess "It's paid for and it don't eat anything."

    Back in the late 1980's, I went to George Gruhn's then small shop to look for a good Gibson mandolin. He had half a dozen F-4's, an A models, and an F-10 in nearly unplayed condition. I tried all of them. The A model wasn't too good and most of the F-4's were rather mediocre. Two mandolins were much better than the rest-- one was the F-10, which was $4000, which was a lot of money back then, especially for a fellow who was making about $7 an hour. The other was a 1918 F-4, which was $1650 [still a lot of money for a guy making $7/hr]. I walked out of there with the F-4 and a 1939 Martin 0-18 for my girlfriend for $2500. It was more fun back in those days. I also remember they had four pre-war 00-21's for $1500 each, a Euphonon dreadnought, and a whole lot of other stuff that we just don't see anymore.

    I still have the F-4. I had only ever played a very few old Gibson mandolins at the time I bought it, and didn't know the instruments well. It was several years before I realized that I had found a particularly good one.
    Last edited by rcc56; Apr-09-2022 at 7:00pm.

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    Mandolingerer Bazz Jass's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    As for the F-10, I guess "It's paid for and it don't eat anything."

    Back in the late 1980's, I went to George Gruhn's then small shop to look for a good Gibson mandolin. He had half a dozen F-4's, an A models, and an F-10 in nearly unplayed condition. I tried all of them. The A model wasn't too good and most of the F-4's were rather mediocre. Two mandolins were much better than the rest-- one was the F-10, which was $4000, which was a lot of money back then, especially for a fellow who was making about $7 an hour. The other was a 1918 F-4, which was $1650 [still a lot of money for a guy making $7/hr]. I walked out of there with the F-4 and a 1939 Martin 0-18 for my girlfriend for $2500. It was more fun back in those days. I also remember they had four pre-war 00-21's for $1500 each, a Euphonon dreadnought, and a whole lot of other stuff that we just don't see anymore.

    I still have the F-4. I had only ever played a very few old Gibson mandolins at the time I bought it, and didn't know the instruments well. It was several years before I realized that I had found a particularly good one.
    Do you still have the girlfriend? That was quite the gift! Lovely guitars the 0-18s from that era

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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    No. She and I went in different directions, and we don't cross paths often. I don't know if she still has the 0-18. I hope so, it too was a darn good instrument.

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    Larry Wexer has a ‘24 Loar F-5 with Virzi here: https://www.gbase.com/powered/lauren...-1924-sunburst

    Wouldn’t it be great to play this and the F-4 next to each other. They are in the same city!
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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    I see the price has gone up over the last month. Someone who can afford it will get an excellent instrument.

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    Registered User Glassweb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Larry Wexer has a ‘24 Loar F-5 with Virzi here: https://www.gbase.com/powered/lauren...-1924-sunburst

    Wouldn’t it be great to play this and the F-4 next to each other. They are in the same city!
    I used to own the Virzi F5 at Larry's. I purchased it years ago at a Skinner auction and then had to sell it later on for financial reasons.

    So I have owned 9 Loar F5s over the years and a few 20's Ferns as well. I will say that this particular F5 (which I gave the name "Scratchy" because of the considerable scratches on the face) has one of most beautiful, warm and balanced tones of any Loar I have owned or played (around 150 of them). This F5, as well as the first F5 I ever owned (a Feb. 18th which also had a Virzi) are probably my favorites for tone of the ones I have owned. There are a few non-virzi Loars out there that I may have preferred for volume... but for tone those two Virzi Loars (as well as another Feb.18 Virzi Loar I played in Pennsylvania years ago) have the kind of tonal profile that most players die for...

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    Mandolingerer Bazz Jass's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    Quote Originally Posted by L50EF15 View Post
    I meant to get over there and check it out, but the day got away from me:

    https://www.retrofret.com/product.asp?ProductID=10312

    I can’t quite justify buying something this good as a sometime mandolinist (primarily guitar, with tenor banjo on the side) and I have a very nice Mid Mo M-0 that I bought new at Mandolin Brothers back in 2000. But I am working on rationalisations…
    Another one has arrived at Retrofret. This is much nicer IMO, and only a few hundred more:

    https://www.retrofret.com/product.as...-Mandolin-1922

    Beautiful!

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    Default Re: Gorgeous F4 with Virzi at Retrofret in Brooklyn

    A nice one at Denver Folklore Center, and for less money [nfi]:
    http://www.denverfolklore.com/shop/I...-x63429028.htm

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