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Thread: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

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    Default 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    Original Underground Music from the Mysterious South is an absolutely glorious instrumental album by Norman & Nancy Blake and the Rising Fawn Ensemble, featurin Peter Ostroushko (spelled Ostrusko on the back cover, for some reason), Carl Jones and Larry Sledge.

    The music of this album has been discussed on previous threads, but I'd like to take a moment to highlight the cover photo, featuring 6 vintage Gibsons, along with a violin and cello.

    I'm not entirely sure about the identities of the individuals on the cover (and would love to be corrected, if need be), but I believe, left to right, it is: Larry Sledge, Peter O, Norman, Nancy, and Carl Miner.

    Larry appears to be holding a Fern (I can't quite tell if it's an F5 or an H5), Peter a teens blacktop A4, Norman a 3-point F2, Nancy an F5 (Loar?), and Carl another teens blacktop A4.

    Nancy is also holding a '24 K4 Mandocello (as evidenced by the coffee-colored tuner buttons). Norman is also holding a Martin slothead sunburst dreadnaught, 12 frets to the body (unsure of the year or the specific model designation, but what a beauty!). On the ground in front of them are a cello and a highly inlaid violin.

    Any insights/knowledge of the specifics of these instruments or players would be appreciated. I've long loved Peter O's mandolin playing on Greg Brown records, particularly on The Echoing Green from "Songs of Innocence, Songs of Experience," and Letters from Europe, from "In The Dark With You."

    Also, in the liner notes on the back, it offers a special thanks to John and Marie Hartford. I'm curious what role they may have played in this recording?

    I've bought several used copies of this LP online to give as gifts. I've gotten so much enjoyment from listening to this album over the years, I want to share the joy.
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    1913 F4, 1914 H1, 1915 A1, 1923 F2, 2007 Jim Rowland F5

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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    The people: Norman turned 84 last month. He and Nancy retired from performing several years ago. They are both in good health and stay close to home. I believe that Norman is working on another record.

    Peter Ostroushko was a wonderful musician and a very likeable fellow. His resume is too long to list here, but includes extensive touring, extensive work on the old Prairie Home Companion radio show, and chamber and symphony work near his home in Minneapolis. He had a disabling stroke a few years back and passed away early last year.

    I haven't seen Carl Jones for some years. He was actively performing at small festivals for many years, and if I remember correctly he was also giving workshops and teaching privately. He and James Bryan made at least a couple of records together, and often performed together. They were regulars at the old Black Mountain Festival.

    Someone else will have to fill in information for Larry Sledge.

    The instruments:
    I am not familiar with the instrument Larry is holding.
    Pete fell in love with the black A-4 and bought it from Norman many years ago. I did some repair work on it before Pete had his stroke. It's an early teens model. Pete played it a lot-- it was re-fretted with modern frets a long time ago, and was getting close to needing the lower frets replaced again.
    Norman is holding a late 3 point F-2 that was built in 1910.
    Nancy is indeed holding a Loar signed F-5. Norman bought it in the late 1970s or early 80's. I believe it's a 1923 model. Quite a few years ago, John Arnold re-located some of the frets to improve the instrument's intonation.
    Carl is holding another early 1910's A-4.

    The mandocello is a K-4 from 1923. It was sold off many years ago. I have heard that is once more for sale by the current owner.

    The guitar is a 12-fret Martin D-28 from 1933 with original sunburst finish. It is the only standard 12-fret D-28 from the period that is known to have been built. Norman used it heavily for several years, and then sold it shortly after the Underground Music record was released. He later found out that it was used as a house guitar on the old WLS Barn Dance radio program.

    2 other sunburst 12-fret D-28's from that period are known to have been built, but both of those were built as Hawaiians. One is pictured on page 41 of Walter Carter's "The Martin Book." The other went through a now defunct New York area store, and was listed with a rather shady description that led me to believe that the top had been replaced by Martin sometime betweem 1945 and 1964.

    The cello is probably Nancy's very old eastern European cello that she used throughout most of her career.
    The violin with the inlaid fingerboard is not familiar to me.
    Last edited by rcc56; Apr-20-2022 at 2:45am.

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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    The players were all youngsters in that picture, but weren't we all back then?

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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    Wow! Thank you, rcc56!
    Your generous and thorough reply is a reminder of why MandolinCafe is one of my favorite sites on the 'net.


    In reading various interviews with Norman, I was stunned by this particular Q&A:

    What kinds of mandolins do you favor?
    I have a 1929 [Gibson] F2 and a 1913 natural-top F4, double flowerpot. I also have a very rare 1910 two-point F4 with the wire and pearl peghead like the three points, which is also natural top and finish. And I have a ’38 raised fingerboard F4, a Vega – not a cylinder-back – but like those, except it isn’t cylinder-back or top with a sunburst finish, which is unusual.

    Regular old-time lute-style mandolin, that’s a Vega with pearl inlays around the top. Very nice mandolin. Then I have a ’26 Martin Style B. Brazilian rosewood style B Martin, round-hole mandolin. And I have the rarest of the Martin mandolins. I have a Style E with all the pearl trim, like the Style 45 except it’s double-bound. There’s two borders of pearl on the top and around the hole, side to side. They made 62 of those. I have a ’22 Gibson A2. I’m not very fond of snakeheads. I’m not fond of the Loar-era, round-hole mandolins. The necks are too narrow and their intonation is rotten. Many Gibson and Martin instruments have rotten intonation, always have had from day one. The Loar period at Gibson was their low point.

    Here's a link to the full interview: https://www.vintageguitar.com/2902/norman-blake/
    1913 F4, 1914 H1, 1915 A1, 1923 F2, 2007 Jim Rowland F5

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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    "The guitar is a 12-fret Martin D-28 from 1933 with original sunburst finish. It is the only standard 12-fret D-28 from the period that is known to have been built. Norman used it heavily for several years, and then sold it shortly after the Underground Music record was released. He later found out that it was used as a house guitar on the old WLS Barn Dance radio program."

    I just found a link to this particular instrument for sale for $2 million dollars.
    https://www.gbase.com/gear/martin-d-...ade-top-1-of-1
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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    You guys are really good with the identifications. I'm often impressed, as I am here.

    Still hoping for the answer regarding John Hartford.

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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    Quote Originally Posted by KCNelson View Post

    I just found a link to this particular instrument for sale for $2 million dollars.
    https://www.gbase.com/gear/martin-d-...ade-top-1-of-1
    Marked down from $3 Million.
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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    Sledge is holding a Loar he once owned that had rhinestones embedded on the headstock. Frank Ray acquired it later on I believe. Larry worked at Silver Dollar City for many years (and may still be there).

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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    "Any insights/knowledge of the specifics of these instruments or players would be appreciated. I've long loved Peter O's mandolin playing on Greg Brown records, particularly on The Echoing Green from "Songs of Innocence, Songs of Experience," and Letters from Europe, from "In The Dark With You." KCNelson

    I remember Allen Ginsberg's lp, "Songs Of Innocence, Songs of Experience". (poetry of William Blake, no relation to Norman, lol!) I'll have to look Greg Brown's up.

    Here's a photo of a young Norman Blake when he was in residence at the Wheeling Jamboree (long time ago!).
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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    I met Larry Sledge in Nashville in about 1977 or so on my first trip to the States, and indeed I think I ended up staying at his place.
    We went to see Norman Blake at The Exit/In . He was playing with Nancy and James Bryan on fiddle, in a double bill with an early version of Newgrass Revival.

    A quick Google seems to show that Larry is back in Missouri where he plays with Horse Creek Band.
    https://www.facebook.com/horsecreekband/
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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    The 1933 slothead Martin was at Loarfest 2020.

    I played it. Definitely a cool old guitar, but no matter what I did, it still sounded like me and not like Norm. Personally I'm not a fan of 12 fretters and I've repaired so many broken slotheads that I'd never bring one home.

    Do I retire comfortably for the rest of my life or give some crusty old geezer $2 million for a funky old guitar that I can build a nice clone of for free with some nice scraps out of my workshop....'gotta be one heck of a Norm fanboy....

    Speakin' of Loarfest, when's the next one gonna' happen????????
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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    I remember Carl saying that someone gave him his A4, wish I could remember who. He teaches a lot (I believe he's at Mars Hill and Swannanoa this year) and performs and records with his wife Erynn Marshall. Fortunately they visit Toronto usually every year (Erynn used to live here) and sometimes do a house concert. That is real musical bliss. They stay with friends and we usually have a jam or two. Last time Carl showed me the Gibson mandola that Erynn had given to him for his birthday. I claim no special status; Carl and Erynn are the sort of people who make friends wherever they go.
    Cary Fagan

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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    Carl will be teaching at Monroe Camp in September.

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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    [QUOTE=KCNelson;1863442]

    I'm not entirely sure about the identities of the individuals on the cover (and would love to be corrected, if need be), but I believe, left to right, it is: Larry Sledge, Peter O, Norman, Nancy, and Carl Miner.

    Freudian slip?

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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    I've played that Mandocello. It has a Virzi and is a monster of a mandocello.

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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    This looks wonderful.

    Is it only available on vinyl?

    Mick
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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    It is wonderful. It was released on CD as "Natasha's Waltz." Norman was a guest at Monroe Camp in 2021 and said the album was their response to the first Dawg Quintet album.
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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    I don't know exactly why Norman cited the Hartfords on this particular recording, but Norman and John met in the 1960's and remained good friends throughout John's life.

    Norman was in John's Aereoplane band, and they both worked on Johnny Cash's TV show. And the story has been told of Norman scraping the lacquer and sanding off some of the top wood on the 1937 [or is it a '38?] F-5 that later became Sam Bush's "Hoss" while riding down the road on John's bus.

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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    AKA the "random hippie sanding" episode.
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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    I bought the LP WAY BACK THEN. Always loved it. I think every mandolin/mandola player should have this album. I think it was re-released on CD as Natasha's Waltz?

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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    "Uncle Sam" by Norman Blake

    Mississippi morning, sunshine bound
    Somewhere round Kosciusko town
    Cocaine horse rode on the wind
    He slept last night at the table again

    Who's that yonder, waving his hand
    Calling out the orders to the big brass band
    Playing all the music fine and grand,
    Let me tell you, good people, that's my Uncle Sam

    He had no friends, he had no wife
    Snow white cocaine ruled his life
    A silver cornet it was his friend
    Each Saturday in the town square band

    Who's that yonder, waving his hand
    Calling out the orders to the big brass band
    Playing all the music fine and grand,
    Let me tell you, good people, that's my Uncle Sam

    Mississippi morning, sunshine bound
    Somewhere round Kosciusko town
    The big brass band won't play again
    But listen close to the evening wind

    Who's that yonder, waving his hand
    Calling out the orders to the big brass band
    Playing all the music fine and grand,
    Let me tell you, good people, that's my Uncle Sam
    But Amsterdam was always good for grieving
    And London never fails to leave me blue
    And Paris never was my kinda town
    So I walked around with the Ft. Worth Blues

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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    Was looking thru my albums yesterday and still have that one. I'll have to dust off the turntable.
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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Grieser View Post
    It is wonderful. It was released on CD as "Natasha's Waltz." Norman was a guest at Monroe Camp in 2021 and said the album was their response to the first Dawg Quintet album.
    I was able to find a CD copy of this for sale online. Thanks to all for the recommendation.

    MP3 DL versions available, but I went for the hard copy which hopefully has the liner notes referenced.

    I look forward to its arrival.

    Mick
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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    I was able to find a CD copy of this for sale online. Thanks to all for the recommendation.

    MP3 DL versions available, but I went for the hard copy which hopefully has the liner notes referenced.

    I look forward to its arrival.

    Mick
    Although less mandolin, another CD to look for is "The Norman and Nancy Blake Compact Disc" Rounder 11505. This contains what I believe are the other Rising Fawn tunes as well as from Nancy's solo album.

    Musicians on this CD are Norman, Nancy, James Bryan and Tom Jackson (on b*nj*).
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    Default Re: 6 Vintage Gibsons on the cover of Norman & Nancy album

    Just to add some Norman trivia, I recall seeing Norman and a few others playing bluegrass in an old Disney movie back in my college years (no cable tv back then so choices were limited!). I googled it a few times over the years but got nowhere. It comes up now and was called “The Nashville Coyote” from 1972. I recall it being the common Disney theme of an animal wandering about looking for a lost owner or friend.

    Jim

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