Under Worm to Over Worm Tuning Machine

[Faxmachine]

Hello!

I'm new to this forum, so sorry if this isn't the place to post this, but I had a question I hope some people here might answer.

I'm currently trying to accessorize some of my mandolin and currently am changing over certain components to be gold instead of silver (tail piece, pick guard bracket, tuning machines) but am currently facing an issue with finding gold tuning machines that are under worm. As it is, any that I've come across have either been completely sold out or are just for an A-style. I have a Loar 310-F and my main question is if I wanted to, could I go from under worm to over worm since I see plenty more of those out for sale? If I cannot immediately, what would I need to do to accommodate the switch?

Thank you!

[MikeEdgerton]

Hello!

I'm new to this forum, so sorry if this isn't the place to post this, but I had a question I hope some people here might answer.

I'm currently trying to accessorize some of my mandolin and currently am changing over certain components to be gold instead of silver (tail piece, pick guard bracket, tuning machines) but am currently facing an issue with finding gold tuning machines that are under worm. As it is, any that I've come across have either been completely sold out or are just for an A-style. I have a Loar 310-F and my main question is if I wanted to, could I go from under worm to over worm since I see plenty more of those out for sale? If I cannot immediately, what would I need to do to accommodate the switch?

Thank you!

The general terms are worm over and worm under. I'm not sure what you have. You generally cannot switch them as the position they occupy on the headstock can make the buttons impossible to turn. Take a look at the late Paul Hostetter's page to get an idea of what I'm talking about. It's here.

Post a picture of the back of your headstock so we can see what tuners you currently have and we can certainly steer you towards new tuners in the finish you're looking for.

[Faxmachine]

This is the worm under ones that I currently have. I'm pretty sure these are grovers? But I'm not certain

[MikeEdgerton]

I believe those are an older Grover tuner model, are the buttons held on by screws? There is a Korean brand tuner that shows up that's kind of a knockoff between a Schaller and a Grover. If you remove a button (assuming they are held on by screws) those have a metal tube covering the space between the button and the worm gear.

In worm under tuners in gold you have many choices available. I'm not sure the new Gold Grover worm under tuners will have the same length of post for the buttons but they would probably still work. To be honest I'm not a big Grover fan but many here swear by them. Schaller makes their GrandTune tuners in gold and worm under. Gotoh makes a gold Worm under. My current favorites are the newer Rubner tuners but they seem to sell out quickly. There is of course Waverly tuners in gold. I have Waverly tuners on my mandolin and mandola but they are expensive.

Where have you looked thus far?

[bbcee]

I’d add to Mike’s good advice something about the Elephant in the Room: tuning direction, as I just went through this. You can find worm-unders aplenty, as Mike has said, but is it important to you which way to turn the buttons to raise or lower the pitch of the string? If so, Cafe member mandroid posted a handy diagram in another thread, which I’ll paraphrase:

* worm under, worm direction /// - reverse tune
* worm under, worm direction \\\ - normal tune
* worm over, worm direction /// - normal tune
* worm over, worm direction \\\ - reverse tune

This diagram has saved me from major hair loss. Good luck!

[Ray(T)]

This is the worm under ones that I currently have. I'm pretty sure these are grovers? But I'm not certain

Going back to one of your original questions and looking at your photo’, if you imagine the worms being on the opposite side of the cogs, you will see that the buttons would be impeded by the woodwork.

[Faxmachine]

Hmm, I'm not quite sure if I full understand this. Does this influence what I should be looking for with regards to the tuners as it relates to what was originally fit to my mandolin?

[Faxmachine]

Oh wow these look nice! I've seen the Waverly ones and some golden gate as well as the grovers of course.

Side question: What exactly is the ratio on these and does that dictate fitment at all? I wasn't sure what I should know as I look into getting other tuning machines and if there is some pertinent information I should have aside from worm under or worm over.

[mandroid]

Schaller's Predecessor to the Grand Tune, with precision diecast backing plates,

could be taken apart & the button-shaft-worm gears shuffled, did so myself .. on F type.

they made RH & LH gear cuts in their production too ... ( that's what the //// vs \\\\ is all about )

[Ray(T)]

Hmm, I'm not quite sure if I full understand this. Does this influence what I should be looking for with regards to the tuners as it relates to what was originally fit to my mandolin?

The headstock shape of “F” model mandolins has become somewhat traditional as has the tendency for them to be fitted with worm-under tuners. You will, however, find some “F” models with worm-over and the “traditional” shape but these are in something of a minority. It’s perfectly possible to fit worm-overs to any “F” headstock - it’s all down to the position of the holes. If you wanted to fit worm-overs to yours, you’d probably need to plug and re-drill the post holes nearer to the nut in ordr to allow adeuate clearance for the tuner buttons.

I doubt whether you’d want to go to these lengths.

It would make far more sense if mandolins had straight sided headstocks! Think yourself lucky that you’re not trying to replace the tuners on a Collings “A” style. These also have shafts of different lengths but I’m not aware that anyone produces appropriate replacement tuners which are generally available.

[Kirk Higgins]

I replaced worm under nickel tuners on my ‘85 Kentucky 650 with Rubner worm under gold colored tuners. I understand this was not your question but may be a solution.