LOL!Originally Posted by
For the record, I agree, no and no. But hey, anything that's good for a laugh...
LOL!
For the record, I agree, no and no. But hey, anything that's good for a laugh...
I'll probably really catch it for this, but I think Nickel Creek are really lame.
I caught them a couple of months ago on Austin City Limits, and, frankly, couldn't get through it. I turned them off.
Wonderful playing, but, after people see that you've mastered your instrument, now what? For these guys, nothing.
Grade school poetry lyrics, and mindless ####### on acoustic instruments is cool for about 2 minutes.
I know all the stuff about Thile's greatness, and you can't take it away from him. He was once in my room at IMBA trying out a mandolin, and played for at least two hours, never repeating a lick. But, for me, when I hear them, it's "so what?"
Give me Neil Young, Sprinsteen, The Band, they've something to say.
I can see where you're coming from with the lyrical content. They definetly are still maturing, and although I love how they play, my mind hasn't been blown by any especially profound lyrics yet.
However, comparing them to singer-songwriters like Neil Young, Bruce, or even Dylan is a tough comparison. Those guys are like Gods to me. Not many songwriters can stand up to their legacy from any genre.
But if you compare them to the stupid empty pointless music that some of their peers are producing I think that they are definetly showing potential. I'm hoping that they eventually grow as songwriters to match their talent as players. I think that the latest CD shows them moving in that direction; the characters in the songs are more complex and multi-dimensional, and the songs are lyrically darker and more powerful.
And if you look at the instrumentals I think that they have done some remarkable work. Ode to a Butterfly, for example, will probably be a classic mando song and an inspiration for many future mando players to come. I would love to hear a completly instrumental CD from NC someday.
I guess we can wait and see. By the way, when I saw them on Oct 1st they covered the Band's "Cripple Creek", so maybe they agree with you?
The Band, Neil Young, I don't know about Bruce, but Dylan...those folks were members of an upper plateau. Ken, like Larry said, they were like gods as far as lyrics are concerned. And musically, too. But also, like Larry said, as far as their peers are concerned they do fairly well. Maybe down the road they will mature lyric-wise. But I love much of their music. I too would love to hear an entire album of instrumentals by them. If you feel that their lyrics are grade-school, one could say the same about Bill Monroe, whom many feel is 'god-like'. I mean, "Blue Moon of Kentucky won't you keep on shinin',......" one could say the same about that, but I don't because it is a certain style. I tap my foot to it, but I dont own any Monroe albums. But I also dont refer to the music as "lame". It is what it is.
If you don't like NC, then fine. But Ken, I think that referring to Nickel Creek as "lame" is a little strong, and serves no purpose at all.
http://www.stephaniereiser.com then click mandolins
I knew this would ruffle some feathers, and music is very personal and subjective, so my opinion is only valid as my opinion.
I know what you're saying about Monroe... but, he still greatly interests me as an artist.
As for the others being "gods", well, perhaps I should have picked some of lesser stature. I used those artists as an example of someone, IMHO, who has a musical statement to make.
All of those examples move me emotionally, even Monroe. I know it may not be the best lyrical content all the time, or the greatest fiddle break, or whatever, but, it's more than that. It's the sincerety, validity, emoting through the music, happy or sad that makes it relevant.
Heck, Mick Jagger and Keith Richards have written tons of great tunes, still great 40 years later.
Are there better singers than Mick? For sure, better guitar players than Keith, for sure, but there music is outstanding. It leaves you with something.
For me... and only for me, musical virtuousity can only take you so far. And believe me, Nickel Creek has that in spades.
After that, nothing about it interests me. I guess the originator was looking for discussion, and I feel they're kinda lame.
The Band? Dylan? Monroe? Sorry, but NC isn't even in the same league and what serves no purpose is even mentioning them in the same breath. NC and all it's members have a long, long way to go to be mentioned seriously in that company. I won't say they will never get there, but seriously I doubt it.
And that is why, when you noticed a thread about NC you decided to post - just to throw darts. Musical interests are very subjective. I see lots and lots of genres that I do not care about, being discussed here. But I would never be impolite and put down someone elses choices.
But, hey, at least we all agree that the mandolin is a great instrument.
http://www.stephaniereiser.com then click mandolins
Sorry, no, that's not at all why I decided to post. It's just my opinion, that's all. None of us like every band.
I just don't get the fuss, that's all. This is not religion, it's music.
Although I like to listen to Nickel Creek a lot, I do agree with Ken on the lyrics. I write really bad songs myself. Saying SOMETHING with stark simplicity ("Blue moon of Kentucky....", "In the twilight glow I see her.....", etc.) is VERY hard to do. NC's lyrics are often too wordy and flowery for me too.
I just listen to the pickin' and don't pay much attention to the words.
I've always felt that great lyrics were a kind of added bonus. I mean... if I can dig the music, who cares what they're saying. A prime example of this would be the Ugly Americans / Scabs, aweful lyrics almost all of the time, but d**m I can dig their grooves.
A bunch of excellent pictures from 10-14-05 Atlanta show:
NC 10-14-05 pics
QUOTE ~ "I'll probably really catch it for this, but I think Nickel Creek are really lame.
I caught them a couple of months ago on Austin City Limits, and, frankly, couldn't get through it. I turned them off.
Wonderful playing, but, after people see that you've mastered your instrument, now what? For these guys, nothing.
Grade school poetry lyrics, and mindless ####### on acoustic instruments is cool for about 2 minutes.
I know all the stuff about Thile's greatness, and you can't take it away from him."
****** WHEW WEEE! #I LOVE IT! #COULDN'T AGREE MORE! #I ACTUALLY POSTED ALMOST THE EXACT SAME THING ABOUT A MONTH OR TWO AGO! #IT WAS ON ANOTHER ONE OF THESE PERPETUALLY REPETITIVE 'N.C.' THREADS. ******** #
QUOTE ~ "And that is why, when you noticed a thread about NC you decided to post - just to throw darts. Musical interests are very subjective. I see lots and lots of genres that I do not care about, being discussed here. But I would never be impolite and put down someone elses choices." #- ***** YOU JUST DID *****
***** I LOVE IT HOW THE 'CREEKSTERS' ASK FOR YOUR HONEST OPINION AND THEN FLAME YOU WHEN YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THEM. #IF YOU CAN'T TAKE THE NEGATIVE THEN DON'T ASK SUBJECTIVE QUESTIONS. #DON'T ASK FOR OTHER OPINIOS, JUST ASK FOR 'LIKE OPINIONS'. *****
You don't have to like them, but to make a sweeping statement like "they're lame"? Thile IS a genius and if you can't see it, either:
A: You haven't listened to them closely.
B: His ideas are over your head.
Just my subjective opinion.
I also know some people who don't get The Beatles.
I don't think that it's necessarily fair to say that NC's ideas are over anyone's head. I like their stuff because I have similar musical influences, and I like how they take a more contemporary rock sound and fuse it with traditional instruments. I don't particularly care for bluegrass, but I don't go around here saying that I think it's lame because (a) it's not, and (b) I'm not going to go out of my way to trample on other's feelings. I think a little acceptance of differences in musical tastes would do a world of good.
Now THAT is the lamest, most insulting non-argument of the whole thread! NC isn't even remotely in the same universe as the Beatles. And with the Beatles, as with any true genius, you don't have to "listen carefully" or have the ideas not be "over your head." The music and the ideas are so dead-on that it just hits nearly everyone who hears it, right away. I like everything from the Beatles to opera (season tickets for the last decade) so nothing NC does is over my head and I have listened carefully, over and over, hoping to hear something real. All I hear is run of the mill pop music with hot mandolin solos.
Hmmm, how do yo pronounce Thile?
Should this even be in the rock section?
(Sorry, ducking now...)
It's pronounced:
Thie lee
About Nickel Creek's music. I like it, Thile is undoubtedly a genius on the mandolin and a large inspiration in my mandolin playing. Sean Watkins is also an extremely creative guitarist. HOWEVER, I really do think that a lot of their songs lack lyrical depth, or are too muddled in convoluted metaphors to be truly memorable. I love the feels they get going in some of their songs (like the break in When in Rome, or the riff in Young), but for a real musical statement, there are better musicians out there.
But hey, if every musical group fulfilled every aspect of the music we are looking for, there wouldn't be that much incentive to keep hunting for new stuff.
I don't know why people attack this band so much...I guess crossing lines is dangerous work. But I've said it before and I guess I'll say it again (a little more empathically): There are some bands/artists that get praised here that I would rather have a tooth removed via my rectum with a rusty tool than listen to...but if it floats someone's boat, I will gladly not ####### in the water.
PeacE
Brian
I think it's a generational thing, in general. Usually it's the old curmudgeons that dis on NC. I don't own any of their cds but I have a ton of respect for them and the music they play and they seem like perfectly nice people. I'm amazed at the amount of time and energy some people spend to put them down. When they or any group draws such extreme reactions - they must be on to something, imo. I say keep on keepin' on, NC.
Should this even be in the rock section?
(Sorry, ducking now...)
--------------------
in my opinion, yes.
conceptually, i think of NC as an indie rock band with small instruments.
pop music? hardly. that's almost as insulting as making cracks about thile's sexual orientation.
some people "get it", some don't. look, there's two kinds of music in the world. good music and bad music . it's up to you to decided which is which. there's no "right" choices. and personally, i put NC in my good pile. right next to sabbath.
Me too, though not right next to each other. There's a lot of letters in between. #
Nickel Creek falls between Newgrange and Tim O'Brien. Or on a little broader scale, between Van Morrison and Joan Osborne.
I agree! I do not think it is because NC crosses genre lines. I mean, look at Sam Bush. Great great mando and bluegrass player, but he uses electric bass in his band and even drums. Sam, though, is around 50 yrs old. Folks don't spend so much negative energy slamming him like they have been doing here on Thile. And that could be the difference. I believe people don't think that Thile 'deserves' to be this good at such a young age.
Look, you don't have to like his music, but you don't have to slam him, either. I hate rap music, but I don't surf the internet searching for threads so that I can slam those people - I just ignore them.
http://www.stephaniereiser.com then click mandolins
look, as far as im concerned, it boils down to this: if you like nickel creek, great. i happen to be an avid fan. i have all their cds. but its unnecessary to go on like they are unapproachable, and get offended when someone offers an opinion otherwise; if you dont like them, fine, but theres no reason to call them names or say their music is stupid or immature. music is music, and it means different things to different people; hence, differing tastes. to say that a certain kind of music is stupid or bad, just means that you personally dont like it; to say its amazing or good, is to say you do like it; whats incredible to some people is so-so or unappealing to others. we all have different tastes, so to insist that others adopt those same tastes by agreeing with your evaluation is unreasonable. if you dont like something personally, explain why, dont bash; if you do like something, dont get offended when others dont share that view. live and let live, i say.
All the Nickel Creek posts amuse me. I criticize bands I like and respect all the time, and I don't see anything problematic with that. It is because we see glimpses of greatness that we wish were replicated more often. Clearly, most agree in the efficacy of their musicianship--that never gets seriously debated. But their songwriting skill and lyrical skill? As a fan who owns four of their cds and has seen them live, I can honestly say that I am often more disappointed than impressed. It isn't that the songs are so bad, it is that they fail to match the talent of the players. Those of us who enjoy Chris' Not All Who Wander Are Lost and his partnership with Mike Marshall, both in the studio and live, have seen what an amazing musician Chris really is. We see flashes of this in Nickel Creek, but it is dampened by the sophomoric song writing. Even their voices, while they sound nice blended in harmony, fail as lead voices, from the overly breathy and strained Thile, to the sounds like an Christian-earnest singer Sean Watkins, to the powerless Sara Watkins.
Yes, their pop songs are more complicated and interesting than most. But does the world need better pop songs? I've always believed that we need better music, which would steer them away from many of the cuts that dominate the albums. That being said, I still listen to most of the songs, but I can't stomach thinking of them as anything more than three people who often waste their talents.
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