Odd (long) mandolin tuners - looking for options

[keith.rogers]

A friend from a small little bluegrass jam that resumed a couple months ago asked me to look at the '14 J. Bovier F5-T he has and is having problems with the tuners.

The initial ask he had was whether there were replacement tuners that could be installed. He has a set of "backwards" Grovers but he said there was some problem with the dimensions, and so I did some measurements, and it seemed that the posts on the Grovers were too short. But, the short story is that the tuners on the mandolin have longer than "standard" posts, almost certainly used because the headstock is thicker (about 19/32") than typical. Typical tuner posts will possibly present a problem, at least on the G-string, because the post hole will be close to the bushing top. I've looked high and low and cannot find tuners like the ones installed. The inside of the backing plates on those are stamped KD-L and KD-R (one stamp each), so maybe they were Kluson Deluxe or something?

I'm suspecting most of the "slop" in these is wear in the buttons, but the shafts are also a bit odd, with a sleeve on the tuner key part, and the 2-flat/round end that goes in the button measuring about 3mmx4mm; i.e., the Stew-Mac replacements won't work.

The posts have a similar kind of keyed fit into the helical gear on the backing plate, so not an option to use on the Grovers, which have press-fit between those parts.

Short of planing the back of the headstock, unless there's a button option I don't know about, I'm on the verge of using epoxy on the knobs and going over the rest of the setup to see if it can be made to work. Any other thoughts?

[Jim Garber]

I think J. Bovier is still in business. Maybe he should talk to Jeff first before doing anything drastic.

[keith.rogers]

I think J. Bovier is still in business. Maybe he should talk to Jeff first before doing anything drastic.

I have an email out checking on spare parts.

I was not planning to do "anything drastic." The "planing" statement was not intended to be an option, as it's not my own mandolin and involves more work than I'd consider justified, but it would solve the availability problem!

[MikeEdgerton]

Those tuners have nothing to do with Klusons. They are Korean and I have a set I took off a Korean made mandola. If you pull a button off you'll see the stem is inside a small tube to make it look more robust and the bushings are plastic and not metal. They have similar dimensions of the older Schaller tuners. Your Grovers turn backwards because Grover didn't bother to make a true worm over tuner, they simply put the same worm on a different plate. Grover's are also very short when it comes to the lengths of the button shafts. You are looking for worm over F style tuners. See if you can find a set of Rubner worm over F style tuners or a set of worm over Gotoh F style tuners. They both go in and out of stock.

[keith.rogers]

.... Grover's are also very short when it comes to the lengths of the button shafts. You are looking for worm over F style tuners. See if you can find a set of Rubner worm over F style tuners or a set of worm over Gotoh F style tuners. They both go in and out of stock.

Thanks. I haven't come across Gotoh tuners but I will look.

And, it's probably my old-rambling-guy wordiness, but the problem isn't the button shaft length, but the string post's length, and specifically, the space between where the string goes through the post, which from the pic I posted is about 23.5mm above the plate. The current/"standard" seems to be about 20.5mm, IOW, the distance lost by the thicker peghead. Specs from the S-M and Rubner sites attached. (And, to clarify, any replacement tuners would need to be well below the Rubner price point.)











p.s. I only see Gotoh tuners at Luthier's Mercantile (where I got my wood from back in the late 70s!) and they appear to be spec'd about the same. From what I can tell, Gotoh and Schallers (similar spec) are only available in worm-under.

[Richard500]

Gosh, Keith, if the present tuners just have play between the buttons and worm shaft, your epoxy solution is indeed proper.
Now if you ever ran into having to replace tuners for other reasons, and had the same ‘short post’ issue, any hobby machinist could make new longer ones easily.

[MikeEdgerton]

p.s. I only see Gotoh tuners at Luthier's Mercantile (where I got my wood from back in the late 70s!) and they appear to be spec'd about the same. From what I can tell, Gotoh and Schallers (similar spec) are only available in worm-under.

You have to know where to look. Gotoh's come in worm over. the old Schallers came in worm-over the new ones do not as far as I know. Check out the specs on the Gotoh's to see if they work for you. Here's a good place to get the worm over tuners. Several of us have bought from him.

These will arrive in All Parts packaging but he's cheaper than buying them straight from All Parts.