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Thread: KM-120 questions

  1. #1

    Default KM-120 questions

    Hey folks, new mandolin owner here. I bought a Kentucky KM-120, the Army-Navy style flattie. I've had it for three days now with about four hours of total play time.

    It's been plunky and a bit choked out going higher up the neck. The sustain/resonance has improved since I first got it, but I'm wondering if it's always going to be plunky and choked out higher up.

    It doesn't have a truss rod, which was a bit of a surprise and oversight on my part. Strings are new but I don't know what gauge. I assume I could go with a lighter set, which would reduce the pull on the neck and let it lay back a bit as a redneck way of bringing the action down a bit.

    Or should I say folk it and try to return it, get a Big Muddy M11 instead? I like GDAE tuning and mandolin is fun, and I'm old enough now to know tweaks and setups don't always work.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: KM-120 questions

    Quote Originally Posted by thx712517 View Post

    It's been plunky and a bit choked out going higher up the neck. The sustain/resonance has improved since I first got it, but I'm wondering if it's always going to be plunky and choked out higher up.

    It doesn't have a truss rod, which was a bit of a surprise and oversight on my part. Strings are new but I don't know what gauge. I assume I could go with a lighter set, which would reduce the pull on the neck and let it lay back a bit as a redneck way of bringing the action down a bit.



    Or should I say folk it and try to return it, get a Big Muddy M11 instead? I like GDAE tuning and mandolin is fun, and I'm old enough now to know tweaks and setups don't always work.
    A few minutes with a micrometer should provide a clue as to an appropriate string gauge.

    Otherwise, if you're not happy with the sound and playability, for any reason, you should return it.

  3. #3

    Default Re: KM-120 questions

    Nothing so fancy as a micrometer but I've got an old pair of calipers that put the low G at .0394". The high e is too thin to register.

    Assuming I return this one, I've got a few higher options from the same place. I primarily play violin pieces and Irish. There's a Kentucky KM-150, a KM-500, KM-505, and an Eastman MD305.

    Just looking for a solid A-style that has a good feel to it and doesn't require kid gloves. I know with guitars there's a point where you're paying for overly fancy finishes and shiny bits and pieces that don't do a dang thing for playability and tone.
    Last edited by thx712517; May-29-2022 at 6:15pm.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: KM-120 questions

    Nothing so fancy as a micrometer but I've got an old pair of calipers that put the low G at .0394". The high e is too thin to register.

    Just to give you an idea, I've got a set of Martin M400s that have a G string of .034", and an E of .010"
    Amazon.com shows the string thicknesses for D'Addario EJ74 mediums as: G - .040, D - .026, A - .015 and E - .011.

    I'd be reluctant to use anything higher than light gauge, But when it comes to strings, I'm kind of a wuss.

    It's pretty quiet, but you might give the Kentucky Owners forum a try: https://mandolincafe.com/forum/group.php?groupid=307

    Good luck

  5. #5

    Default Re: KM-120 questions

    I've happily used the GHS Ultra Light mandolin set (.009 - .032) on pancake mandolins (Flatiron, Cripple Creek, J. Bovier, Pilgrim, etc.) for years. I think the increase in volume (noticeable to me and others) is due to the top not being weighted/pressed down as much due to the lower tension, and is thus freer to vibrate.

    With that aside, the KM-120 is a relatively new instrument, and so is likely still stiff. I've wondered if the reports about its less-than-stellar tone (in topics right here on the Café) might possibly due to a laminated top, but my Pilgrim is definitely laminated, and it sounded pretty good right out of the carton.

    Incidentally, I sent you a private message (private so as not to stir up a feeding frenzy) about two used Big Muddy/Mid Missouri mandolins at a decent price. That brand sounds good and isn't fragile. I never heard back from you, so I never knew what you thought of those listings.

    Whatever you decide to do, good luck!
    ----

    Playing a funky oval-hole scroll-body mandolin, several mandolins retuned to CGDA, three CGDA-tuned Flatiron mandolas, two Flatiron mandolas tuned as octave mandolins,and a six-course 25.5" scale CGDAEB-tuned Ovation Mandophone.

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  6. #6

    Default Re: KM-120 questions

    It's been a minute. I have been playing the KM-120 for about a week. In that time it has become more resonant with a bit more sustain. I also ordered and received a Kentucky KM-505 (circa 2021 by the serial) to compare.

    Both have medium gauge strings, both are made by Kentucky (although to very different styles) and I thought the 505 would be an immediate slam dunk.

    Imagine my surprise when it hasn't been. The 505 is certainly more resonant and has more sustain. The high E course has been easier to play. But the tone is....sharper? If that makes sense. I presume due to the f-holes versus round sound hole. With the 120 I like the D and A courses, with the G feeling/sounding rather tubby/flabby and the E course lacking in sustain.

    Logically I believe the 505 should be the better instrument. Solid woods, carved top and back, an adjustable bridge, a truss rod, etc. But the laminated mahogany, flat top, no adjustment bridge, no truss rod 120 still feels nice to me.

    I've tried most of the guitar picks I have. Celluloid, tortex, Tusq, nylon, in varying thicknesses and shapes. I don't know what strings are on the 120, but the 505 has GHS LSB250 per the checkout sheet.

    I wasn't expecting that they would be close at all to my ears and fingers. I've gone back and forth playing song after song for two days. I'd love to play both with light gauge strings. I feel like the lower string tension would make both more enjoyable for me as I use extra lights on my acoustic guitar and 9s on my electric. I also feel it's where I'd see the value of the 505, as far as adjusting the neck relief to the lower string tension. I don't know how the 120 would react and if lighter gauge strings would let the neck lay back too far and make it harder to play.

    Any wisdom of the ages for me? My guitar experience tells me I'd want the adjustability of the truss rod and bridge, and my violin experience tells me carved solid wood is better than laminate for sound production. The 505 certainly vibrates more in playing. Are there warmer, more mellow strings out there? Would a week of playing "open up" the 505?

  7. #7

    Default Re: KM-120 questions

    Quote Originally Posted by thx712517 View Post
    . I wasn't expecting that they would be close at all to my ears and fingers.

    ...I'd love to play both with light gauge strings. I feel like the lower string tension would make both more enjoyable for me as I use extra lights on my acoustic guitar and 9s on my electric. ...I don't know how the 120 would react and if lighter gauge strings would let the neck lay back too far and make it harder to play.

    Any wisdom of the ages for me? My guitar experience tells me I'd want the adjustability of the truss rod and bridge, and my violin experience tells me carved solid wood is better than laminate for sound production. ...Would a week of playing "open up" the 505?
    Well, first off, the instruments have two different methods of construction. It's been a while since I've responded to a topic about the differences between flat-top and carved-top instruments, but generally speaking, carved tops have more filtering of the pure string sound and therefore more coloration of the resulting sound, along with less sustain. Some people in certain genres feel that particular sound profile is exactly what they want. Otheres want the sustain and pure tone and volume of the flat top.

    F-soundholes also take instruments in that filtered, less sustained direction. Oval holes keep things in the sustained, pure-toned area.

    If you read the various topics here at the Cafe, you'll find that the consensus opinions agree about these differences. "Man, this pancake mandolin I bought sounds *loud!*" "This pancake doesn't have the chop and woody tone I want!" The differences of construction even produce those noticeable tonal and volume differences between arch-top and flat-top guitars.

    I do think that putting, say, a set of GHS Ultra Light strings .009 - .032 on the flat top will make it more resonant.

    Three flat-top instruments I have from Flatiron have no truss rods. I did have fret work done (or did it myself, after a certain point in time once I got confident).
    To make them perfectly level. Once the frets were sorted, I cautiously lowered the bridge heights myself, and then lowered the nut slot depths. They've nevered required any further adjustment since then, and some of them have been in my possession for a few decades without a need for further adjustment. In fact, I think the lack of a truss rod makes them more resonant and responsive. I use them for chord melody work and other things, and they sound good and play easily all the way up and down the neck, even with full chords.

    I can't answer regarding what your particular tastes are, but you've definitely made me reconsider getting a KM-120. I've had a good experience with my Pilgrim laminated-top pancake, and Kentucky has a good reputation, so I think I'm going to take a chance.

    Thanks for sharion your experiences!
    ----

    Playing a funky oval-hole scroll-body mandolin, several mandolins retuned to CGDA, three CGDA-tuned Flatiron mandolas, two Flatiron mandolas tuned as octave mandolins,and a six-course 25.5" scale CGDAEB-tuned Ovation Mandophone.

    Love mandola?
    Join the Mandola Social Group!

  8. #8

    Default Re: KM-120 questions

    I'm going to return the KM-505. I could return the KM-120 and go whole hog on a Big Muddy M11 assuming the flat top and mahogany construction would make for a mellow instrument but the audio clip on their website sounded pretty bright.

    Honestly the cheapest option seems to keep the 120 and experiment with strings. I hope I can go down to light gauge strings without displacing the neck.

  9. #9
    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
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    Default Re: KM-120 questions

    Quote Originally Posted by thx712517 View Post
    I'm going to return the KM-505. I could return the KM-120 and go whole hog on a Big Muddy M11 assuming the flat top and mahogany construction would make for a mellow instrument but the audio clip on their website sounded pretty bright.

    Honestly the cheapest option seems to keep the 120 and experiment with strings. I hope I can go down to light gauge strings without displacing the neck.
    Strings make a big difference in the Big Muddy mandolins too. Mike likes those GHS 80/20 sets as I recall, but there are alternatives.
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