1924 Lloyd Loar at Elderly Instruments

[Old Dog Dave]

Dave, as you're a Robert Johnson fan, how about a nice Kalamazoo kg14 and a Gibson L1 as featured in his photographs ? You'd get both for 10K.

Davey, I vividly recall the first time I listened to the Columbia "King of the Delta Blues" album of RJ. It was sometime in 1966 when I was stationed in Germany with the Army. I can't recall if I bought the album or someone else in our platoon bought it. But, the listening experience was a strange mix of scary and amazing, with some jaw-dropping as the album went on. He was truly the king, imho. Now, I love the blues of Charlie Patton, Son House (a big fan of his), Skip James, Bukka White, and Muddy Waters (especially his pre-electric stuff, though his Chicago sound was good too). And, of course, who doesn't love Mississippi John Hurt. But, #1 for me will always be RJ. Who could ever improve on "Hellhound on My Trail", "Come on in My Kitchen", "Traveling Riverside Blues", or pretty much any of his repertoire? There have been some good covers of his music, and I applaud John Hammond Jr. for his blues work; masterful, I think. But, there's RJ, then there's everybody else.

[allenhopkins]

The price of Lloyd Loar F-5's has steadfastly remained at "more than I can afford."

When they were $25K, I couldn't afford that. When I got to where I could seriously think about spending that kind of money, they'd moved on into six figures.

My house cost $41K, 46 years ago. My most recent (used) car cost $20K.

So I'll continue to admire Loars from afar, and wait until I hit Powerball and can afford a Shmergel Devastator, assuming there's one for sale somewhere.

Which there isn't. And I keep forgetting I need to buy a Powerball ticket to have a chance at the jackpot. Life's funny that way.

[CarlM]

....So I'll continue to admire Loars from afar, and wait until I hit Powerball and can afford a Shmergel Devastator, assuming there's one for sale somewhere.

Which there isn't. And I keep forgetting I need to buy a Powerball ticket to have a chance at the jackpot. Life's funny that way.

You do not select Shmergel Devastators. They select you.

[Jeff Mando]

,

When they were $25K, I couldn't afford that.

Same with me, the "good stuff" was always "just" out of reach to me. 50 years ago I could have bought a blackguard telecaster for $400 -- for me, at that time, an impossible sum.

When they were $5K, I was still single and fully recognized its value, but couldn't afford it as an $8 an hour music store clerk.

Once instruments became routinely offered for car and house prices, I could probably afford one, but felt the money could be better spent on other needs of life.

YMMV

[wbcohen]

It seems much more likely that the issue is not about specs of this particular instrument or the current state of the market but that this mandolin is just not a good one. I don't mean to sound glib but this Loar has been on the market for a very very long time and played by many who passed and were not impressed. There are many Loars that are fantastic, many that are just OK and some that are dogs. The lore of the Loar doesn't make up for poor sound or playability.

[brunello97]

So I'll continue to admire Loars from afar, and wait until I hit Powerball and can afford a Shmergel Devastator, assuming there's one for sale somewhere.

Which there isn't. And I keep forgetting I need to buy a Powerball ticket to have a chance at the jackpot. Life's funny that way.

There was an unsigned Shmergel Devastator on Craigslist here just this morning, Allen.

I was trying to reach you via PM here but when I checked back on CL, it was gone... no sign of the ad even.

Somebody got a deal, and erased all traces.

Mick

[Amanda Gregg]

I just looked this instrument up in the archive.
A reason that it is being called "peculiar" is that all other documented instruments with a March 31, 1924 date have serial numbers in the 75,000's and 76,000's. But the serial number of this instrument is 79824. I would consider a letter of authentication by a top tier authority to be necessary for this particular instrument.

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As far as the instrument market is concerned, it has fragmented and is behaving differently than it did from 1990 to 2008.

Beginning in the early 1990's, everything went up steadily until the 2008 crash.
After the crash, most prices dropped, then went flat.
Some prices dropped more than others.

A few years ago, prices on some, but not all things started to creep up.
Then, a feeding frenzy began in the electric and acoustic guitar markets about 1 1/2 to 2 years ago and prices increased aggressively. Mandolins and banjos have not increased at the same rates as guitars.
There are signs that the feeding frenzy might be levelling off.
I'm not going to try to predict the market for the future.

I do know that several Loars have sold within the past year.

Current listed asking prices for Loar F-5's on the public market vary between $120k and $177k.
There are also a couple of public listings with no price specified.

You are welcome to pm me for more information.

Very cool. I'd love to make a graph that tells this story.

For years I've wanted to unite my passions and document some statistics on this market, but I've never been able to find a source for systematic information on prices. I even contacted Tony Williamson at one point (I don't think I got a reply to my cheeky information request). If anyone has information and would be interested in teaming up on a "research" project, let me know.

[lowtone2]

Amanda the economandolinist, I bet someone like Gruhn could help you with that, if he would. He would be my first try for info like that.

I own a couple of collectible instruments, and bought both long before I had a clue that they would ever become collectible. That's probably the best way to invest in instruments-buy low and be lucky. Or be Bill Monroe.

By the time I became aware of Loar signed F5s they were already listed for $40K.

[BradKlein]

Thile lost money on his Loars, but he is in a position to do so, by writing it off, so no biggee.

Has Thile sold either of his two Loar-signed F-5s? If not, then he hasn't lost anything. I don't begin to understand the tax implications of buying, owning, selling, and insuring instruments for a professional musician. But the provenance of a Thile-owned instrument will add considerably to its sale price when that time comes. And that's even with the high end modifications he's done. I don't think that a new fingerboard and tuners by a top luthier detract value in the market as it stands.

I have been told by a top pro, that owning a Loar puts them in the market, so whether prices go up or down they have the value they need if they want to trade for a different instrument should one appeal to them someday. And any appreciation or depreciation in the instrument may be overshadowed by the cost and value of buying, using it, maintaining and repairing, and insuring it over many years.

[rcc56]

Very cool. I'd love to make a graph that tells this story.

For years I've wanted to unite my passions and document some statistics on this market, but I've never been able to find a source for systematic information on prices. I even contacted Tony Williamson at one point (I don't think I got a reply to my cheeky information request). If anyone has information and would be interested in teaming up on a "research" project, let me know.

Since Tony Williamson does not publish the prices of the instruments that he sells even on his own website; you might go elsewhere for the info you're looking for.

George Gruhn might give you some historical information on prices if you catch him on the right day. Since the NAMM show is going on right now in CA, I would wait at least a few days before contacting him to let him get a little rest and catch up on his in-house business.