Bridge adjustment when changing string gauge?

[RickPick]

When purchased new, my mandolin was nicely set up, and the strings used were Martin Bluegrass M450s. They played great but didn't live very long. I've switched to D'Addario EJ74 Phosphor Bronze, which are highly celebrated on this site. But the Martins were a slightly smaller gauge (.011/.014/.024/.038 -- between light and medium gauge). The D'Addarios are straight "medium" (.011/.015/.026/.040). I've given myself significant time to get used to the different feel and somewhat harder fingering, but I've come to the conclusion that I prefer the slightly lighter gauge. I especially notice this with my picking hand.
It occurred to me, however, that I might just need to adjust the bridge to accommodate the somewhat heavier gauge D'Addario EJ74 strings than what the mandolin was originally set up for. The EJ74s aren't buzzing at all -- they are just harder to play, especially to play triplets and tremolo. Is it common practice to change the bridge height when different string gauges are used? Thanks for any advice from those much better informed than I am.

[Randi Gormley]

I noticed the same thing when I switched from J-74s on my Eastman to a different gauge (can't remember to what right this sec) and, yes, I had to readjust the bridge to compensate. I couldn't figure out why it was so hard to keep in tune until I figured that out. my 2 cents.

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

In general, heavier gauge strings can run a little lower action. It's going to be trial and error though so If you want to try it, just slightly lower the action at the bridge a little at a time (try about a quarter of a turn). If the mandolin starts buzzing you've gone too far. While lowering the action some will help, I've found that you still will find the higher gauge strings harder to play. You can mitigate that a little with proper setup/lower action.

[kurth83]

On guitar (I know guitar better than mando), lighter strings have wider oscillation, so you might need to raise the bridge (or loosen the truss rod) to avoid buzz when moving to lighter strings.

Your change is so slight I doubt you would need to do anything.

I put .10's (down from 11's) on my mando, and the bridge had to be moved (maybe I had a bad setup I don't know, I only paid attention to intonation after I replaced strings). I had no issues with buzz though. I did try lowering the bridge because the action seemed a little high up the fretboard, and then it buzzed, had to put it back.

[Tom Wright]

In addition to the above, note that higher tension will pull on the neck more, and may induce more bowing. A truss rod tightening might be in order, as a bowed neck will cause higher action and poor intonation in the first few frets.

[Tobin]

I agree with Atlanta Mando Mike. You can adjust the action a little lower, but they're still going to feel stiffer than your previous lighter strings. And by lowering the action, you might lose a little volume in the process.

You mentioned that you primarily feel it in your picking hand, not your fretting hand. Lowering the action isn't going to change this at all. String tension will be the same to get it up to pitch, no matter how high the action is, so the pick stroke is still going to feel the same.

It may not be what you want to hear, but I would really recommend just getting used to the strings. EJ74s are pretty much the definition of medium strings, and I personally think (just my opinion, of course) that you'll be a more rounded mandolin player by building your strength and precision around mediums instead of lights. I don't know how far along you are on your mandolin journey, or what kind of music you're playing, but one day you'll probably want to drive that mandolin pretty hard, and those light strings are going to let you down.

It is understandable, of course, to want to play strings that feel easier under the fretting fingers and under the pick. But more experienced players are trending towards the heavier strings as they push their instruments further. If you get to that point where you realize light strings are too wimpy for what you need the instrument to do, it'll be harder to readjust at that point. Again, just my opinion.

[Givson]

I'd lower the action a bit for the heavier strings. The heavier tension strings can also cause a bit more neck relief, and may require a truss rod adjustment.

[RickPick]

Thanks, as always, for the advice. Being of the "if it ain't broken...." clan, I've never previously messed with the bridge screws. But it makes sense to try some small adjustments and see what effect that has on the "problem" I'm encountering with the slightly heavier gauge strings. If that helps (and bearing in mind what Tobin says about the virtues of just persisting with the EJ74s), I might be content to not spend another few hours changing strings again. Yeah, it takes me FOREVER! And Tom, getting me started on truss rod tightening reminds me of the first VW engine and transmission I "learned" mechanics on....

[Mandoplumb]

Maybe I'm missing something but if the lighter strings felt better why not stay with lighter strings if the Martins didn't last as long as you wanted try other brand light strings. Just my$.02 worth.

[RickPick]

Mandoplumb, not a bad idea. The short life of Martin Bluegrass 80/20 bronze strings is not just my own experience, but well documented. In fact, they are no longer manufactured probably because of that shortcoming. That makes them hard to acquire in Canada and very expensive when shipping from the States is added. But the sound of the Martins on this particular mandolin was quite nice to my ear. My experience of dropping to light gauge strings from medium on my guitar was to change the sound demonstrably in a way I didn't like, so I guess I've been a bit shy about going to other lighter-than-medium strings on my mandolin for that reason. Until I read some of the helpful posts on this thread, I hadn't thought about lighter gauge strings making playing easier, so long as the set-up was up to snuff; I was only thinking about the effect on sound. But as Tobin implies, I really have to have a firmer right hand in order to execute faster pick strokes with heavier gauge strings. Someone said something here about not knowing how long I'd been on the mandolin journey -- well, a long time but that doesn't mean I've moved very far from my departure point! Sure been fun though! Every time I post something here, I learn stuff I didn't know I didn't know. And did I mention how much I hate changing strings, which is another strike against Martin D450 strings with their short lifespan?

[Willie Poole]

As long as you know the gauge of each string you can contact almost any string dealer listed here on the cafe and order singles of those gauges, a little more costly than buying a whole set at a time but if they will make your mandolin feel better to you it will be worth it...I used to do just that in past years and then I settled on playing the GHS-A-270`s and they are what I prefer but may not be what you like...

[pops1]

Lower the bridge, I don't feel if hurts volume and it sure feels better. I use 11-40 and have wrist and hand arthritis and have the action set low, it plays real easy. Sometimes I feel like I play too hard when I don't have to.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Since most 'heavier' string sets are only about .001" - .002" in difference,& only a half of that resting in the nut / bridge saddle,i've never needed to adjust anything. I've currently got GHS A270's on my Weber with their .016" A strings instead of the usual .015" gauge i've used before. Adjustment required for .001" & only .0005" of it resting in the nut/bridge ?. Not any any of my 3 mandolins. If there had been a need for any adjustment,i'd have noticed it & done it. I've gone from medium to heavier & back again without the need to adjust anything,& nobody who's played any of my 3 mandolins has noticed any difference other than the tone of the different brands of string. After re-stringing i always check the intonation etc.,just in case the bridge has moved slightly,that's about as far as any adjustment that's been needed & only on rare ocassions at that.
Don't take it for granted that changing from one gauge to another needs any change,unless it's simply an adjustment to the string height for playability. Change ''anything'',only if required IMHO,
Ivan

[pops1]

It may be that the set up was higher to accommodate the lighter strings or that, for me, most set up's are too high to begin with. Now that you have a little more tension even tho it's not a lot you are noticing it. If you lower the bridge and don't like it it's not a permanent thing and it can be raised back up. If you feel uncomfortable about it count or make a note of how much you lower so you can go back to where you were. The best way is to measure from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the string on both the E & G. That will tell us more about where you are and what to do and will make it easy for you to go back to that measurement. I usually measure in 32nd's, but if metric is what you have use that and we can figure it our. A good light and accuracy are important.

[Mandoplumb]

Isn't the OP saying that the heavier strings are affecting his picking hand not his noting hand? If so it is solely the tension of the heavier strings not string height or any other aspect ot set up IMHO.

[Tom Wright]

The OP did say fingering was harder, and asked if bridge height was ever changed to accommodate different string gauges.

Picking isn't completely independent of fingering, in that when it takes a bit more effort to fret it will affect timing, and the string may not be fully fretted when the pick strikes. That has the effect of making it seem unresponsive, harder to pick. Action that is lower-effort will feel faster, more responsive.

[pops1]

I seem to pick harder when I press harder, and viasa versa, so I feel one affects the other and the timing there of.

[Tobin]

But as Tobin implies, I really have to have a firmer right hand in order to execute faster pick strokes with heavier gauge strings.

Actually, what I was talking about was more related to driving the instrument for volume. It often relates to speed, but not necessarily so. The heavier strings become an asset when you're playing in a jam or other live music situation and trying to project over other instruments. This is when a firmer pick stroke and "digging in" will become critical, and lighter strings just may not have what it takes. Lights are easily over-driven. Aside from breakage issues, they won't have the volume, and they are very easily bent sharp.

Much will depend on your mandolin's construction, of course. Every instrument responds differently to certain factors relating to tone and volume, which are greatly affected by string size, break angle at the bridge, etc. The hard-core heavy bluegrass players have trended towards heavier strings and higher actions, both of which can generally improve volume without over-driving the instrument. Every mandolin will have a point where this is ideal, and going any heavier with the strings or higher with the action won't help. So experimentation is necessary once a player gets to the point where he's looking to maximize his instrument's potential.

But my point, I think, is that if you envision yourself getting to that point in the future, where you're looking to maximize the volume and drive from your mandolin, then it doesn't make any sense to start with light gauge strings and then have to make the transition to mediums and then heavies later on. It is a pretty tough change to make once you've established your playing technique pretty well. It can set you back months when you have to re-learn how to play on heavier strings. Might as well learn on mediums from the get-go and make it your "base" so that it's a shorter jump to heavies.

Now all of this is just my opinion, of course. I consider light strings as best suited to absolute newbies with no experience on stringed instruments, who have very delicate fingertips and need to transition into it. Or children learning to play, who may not have the finger strength of adults. Or people who play more delicate instruments like bowlbacks that can't handle heavier strings, or any other vintage instrument that may have structural issues with anything but lights. And of course, lights are perfectly suitable if one just likes the thinner twangier sound of them to suit their style of music. But - again, just my opinion - if you think that your musical future is going to involve playing hard-driving music with others (especially bluegrass or even ITM), mediums to heavies are going to usually be where you'll end up. Depending on the instrument's limitations. What kind of mandolin is this, anyway? I don't recall you saying what you were putting these strings on, or what kind of music you intend to play.

Sorry for the long post, but one last point. Back to picking. If speed alone is your goal for the moment, I don't think a firmer right hand is what you should be using. Speed requires a very loose and relaxed pick grip. The tighter you grip that pick and try to drive it through the strings, the more you will limit your speed. You should be playing with the loosest pick grip you can while you're working on precision and speed. Firming up the pick grip should only come later, AFTER you've established speed and accuracy, and only when you need to increase volume.

[Mandoplumb]

I think we worry too much about volume, any good mandolin in a band situation will be loud enough, listen to a band or even a small jam in a parking lot the mandolin generally comes thru as well as the fiddle or even banjo if you are at a listening distance. What I have noticed is for some reason in a stage situation the mandolin volume is lower for some reason. Maybe all sound men don't like the mandolin, anyway that's why the band I play in uses one mic, if we don't come across as we wanted it's our fault.

[RickPick]

Thanks for all the replies, folks. I haven't done it yet, but think I will change the bridge adjustment carefully and see what effect that has. As you have said, I can always return to the original setting. But as I read and benefit from all the information here, I think -- AT BEST -- that will only make fretting a bit easier, and that's not my concern. My original post had to do with picking repeating strings (triplets and tremolo) on the heavier gauge J74s. As I think on it, rapidly picking back and forth on thick cables would be more difficult than to do the same thing on fine wires, so the height above the fret board is irrelevant.
The mandolin in question is a Loar (ie, a "THE Loar!) 520, and I had been content with the volume and chop of the Martin 450s for my limited (but enthusiastic) experiences with bluegrass. However, I also play an oval hole Eastman that I use for ITM that involves picking single melody notes (no chords and few double stops). Some of the strings (G and E) on the oval hole (Martin M400s) are even slightly lighter than the M450s (.010/.014/.024/.034 vs. .011/.014/.024/.038). Long story short -- the "problem" I'm experiencing is likely nothing more than trying to pick rapidly back and forth on more substantial strings than I've become used to picking on.
One last word in reply to Tobin and others -- volume is not really a problem because 1) I'm mostly playing by myself, 2) I can't play bluegrass leads that anyone wants to hear anyway, and 3) no matter WHAT I play in ITM sessions, I can't even hear myself amid 5 or 6 fiddles, a bodhran or two, whistles, and a button accordion (that's when the piper stays home)!

[Jim]

EJ73 strings may be what the OP needs.

[s11141827]

My Mandolin was converted to work w/ only super light strings cause they've cut the top extra thin.

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I use Thomastik Infeld Medium Gauge Precision Mandolin Strings which are Flatwound strings designed like Violin strings. The flatwound design will save the frets from scratches.