Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 57

Thread: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

  1. #26
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ann Arbor/Austin
    Posts
    6,281

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    Fair play to you Fuzzy.

    As Mike hinted with his request for a view of the rear head-to-neck joint, this detail is the smoking gun for me, too.

    What our friend Diego Garber refers to as a "volute" which had my architect's brain grinding for awhile until
    I realized Jim's extensive musical knowledge also extends to the aquatic fossil record.

    I've been using Dogal Calace Dolces on my Martin and it sounds wonderful.

    You might even try out their "medios" on this.

    A bit more expensive but they sound great and seemingly last forever.

    The last time I got some was from Bernunzio.

    Tu tatara abuelo would be happy to know you're playing it.

    Mick
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Volute.jpeg 
Views:	41 
Size:	651.8 KB 
ID:	201496  
    Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
    ______________________

    '05 Cuisinart Toaster
    '93 Chuck Taylor lowtops
    '12 Stetson Open Road
    '06 Bialetti expresso maker
    '14 Irish Linen Ramon Puig

  2. #27
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,875

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    A Stewart label similar to yours is on this page of Martin stamps and labels. Many of the Martin produced instruments made for other company's (such as those made for Wurlitzer) included the standard Martin impressed stamp on different parts of the instrument along with the label of the company it was produced for.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  3. #28
    Teacher, repair person
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Southeast Tennessee
    Posts
    4,078

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    The lack of a Stewart or Martin stamp is unusual.
    A closer look inside with a light might reveal something that's hard to find.
    Or, it has occurred to me that the label might be concealing a stamp. But I do not advise removing it to see!

  4. #29

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    10 - 36 will probably be all right if the instrument is structurally sound. I wouldn't go any heavier. And in this case, I would suggest that you confirm that any repair person you use specifically has considerable experience with pre-war Martin instruments.

    Nice find. Take very good care of this one.
    Would you still recommend that Max Girouard guy you mentioned in this case? Makes this instrument that much more special that it sounds pretty rare and I'm at least the 3rd person it was passed down to. Not sure if it skipped my grandfather or not.

    @Brunello I'll definitely try somewhere other than guitar center when I go to restring this again. The only had the one brand/set of strings. I might actually do that soon just to be safe with this one and get the lighter strings. It seems to be pretty solid still and holding well to them.

    @Mike I just checked it once more and there's no other stamps or engravings of any other names. Just the sticker in the body.

  5. #30

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    And I wouldn't dream of pulling that sticker off to check for that.

  6. #31

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    I did just try to see yet again looking as closely as possible if there was something on the back of it to see if you could see the stamp or something maybe pushed through the wood and see the markings backwards but no, nothings there

  7. #32
    Teacher, repair person
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Southeast Tennessee
    Posts
    4,078

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    No, don't take the label off!! I probably shouldn't have said anything about that.

    As far as Mr. Girouard is concerned, I don't recall meeting him. It's been 40 years since I lived up there.
    What I do know is that he has been building mandolins for some years, and has a good reputation on the Cafe as a builder and as a repairman.

  8. #33

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    I'll have to look into them before going with the other place. Though something about a Max Girouard obituary did pop up as I typed the name into Google. But there's a site for the work still so maybe it's remaining a family business?

    Also after reading the link Mike dropped I'm going to bring one of my inspecting tools home tomorrow to try to get a look inside the body better and see if there is some sort of stamp hiding in there. If I see something I'll try to get a picture and post it here.

  9. #34
    Teacher, repair person
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Southeast Tennessee
    Posts
    4,078

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    If something has happened to him, it's news to us.
    When I google searched it just now, it pulled up several different Max Girouards, including the luthier, a project manager in Pawtucket, and others; and no obits on the first page.
    Give him a call. His phone number is on his "available" page.

  10. #35

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    The site I came up with says they're located in Glocester. I'll give them a call though to set up an appointment to go see them and get their input.

  11. #36

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    The case appears to be a Bull's Head case judging by the motif on the compartment lid and is probably the original case for sure. From my experience of them, the detail is difficult to discern very often but you can date its era from the stamp. This site will help- he is a member here and he shows how the trademark changed in the white box at the top which gives a clue to its date.
    http://www.stevekirtley.org/bullshead.htm

    What is termed the volute on the back of the neck where it joins the headstock is what shows your mandolin to be a Martin made instrument- it looks great!

  12. #37

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    Thanks! And sadly that's the only marking I can find on the case. That sort of raised logo. There could have been a sticker or something on it at some point but it's long gone by now. Just like the tail piece cover. I'll give that page a read though to see if even that logo determines something. Also like I said I'll get something to look inside the body. There's gotta be some other marking on this thing.

  13. #38
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,875

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    For posterity these are the first two images linked to by the OP in the first message in this thread.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Stewart1.jpg 
Views:	35 
Size:	607.3 KB 
ID:	201502   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Stewart2.jpg 
Views:	49 
Size:	609.0 KB 
ID:	201503  
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  14. #39

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    So I stuck a small mirror through the sound hole to check as much as I could for any spots likely to have some sort of marking and I found absolutely nothing. Do I have like a prototype of this model or something? Going to bring this by Girouard next week to talk about getting a fresh pick guard. They told me with older instruments they don't like to do any wood/restoration work if the sound is still good.

  15. #40
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,875

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    The absence of any other markings is not unheard of or unusual. Some of the work that Martin did for others was marked some was not. There's nothing about this to make it anything other than it is, a product made by one company to be sold by another as their own product. Many companies that had at one time manufactured their own instruments had them built by others and claimed them as their own. Martin didn't do a lot of this but they did some. Max and Laurie aren't going to steer you wrong. You really don't want anyone to make that mandolin look brand new but that pickguard could be an issue depending on what it's made of. If the top was missing or cracked beyond repair then it's worthwhile to replace it. If it isn't the older wood should by all rights sound better. Let them look at it and make suggestions. The monetary value of this isn't huge, it's hundreds of dollars. The real value in it is the sentimental value that it was played by a family member. Go into this with your eyes open.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  16. #41

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    I'd have only considered the monetary value if it could pay off my house or a very significant chunk of it. Even if it was a few thousand I wouldn't have thought about selling it. I plan on learning how to play using it.

  17. #42
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Corinth, VT
    Posts
    156

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    I have the same type S.S.Stewart mandolin, rosewood back, etc(although in very worn condition). Described by seller as Martin made, and I too saw Jake Wildwood's description of the one in his shop as Martin made. By chance I then corresponded with
    Richard Johnston, of Gryphon Instruments(author of books on Martin instruments), and he tactfully and firmly stated that, despite the similarities, these were not made by Martin: there are numerous differences in the construction details(i.e. t-frets; dyed maple fingerboard; no Martin markings of any kind; flatsawn rosewood(not quartersawn) for example). I'd had my doubts, too, and he confirmed them. Fortunately, mine sounds excellent, as good as I'd hoped, so I'm pleased with it. The OP is fortunate to have inheritied his grandfather's example, and in such lovely condition!

    Despite it's very worn, heavily played condition, mine has survived without any cracks or other serious damage, which is some testament to it's build quality, and the care given by it's previous owners.

  18. The following members say thank you to Dave Richard for this post:


  19. #43

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    The only thing really wrong with mine is the pick guard being do cracked and brittle. And that's probably from it being stored in attics and whatnot. Outside of that it's just worn a bit.

  20. #44
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,875

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Richard View Post
    I have the same type S.S.Stewart mandolin, rosewood back, etc(although in very worn condition). Described by seller as Martin made, and I too saw Jake Wildwood's description of the one in his shop as Martin made. By chance I then corresponded with
    Richard Johnston, of Gryphon Instruments(author of books on Martin instruments), and he tactfully and firmly stated that, despite the similarities, these were not made by Martin: there are numerous differences in the construction details(i.e. t-frets; dyed maple fingerboard; no Martin markings of any kind; flatsawn rosewood(not quartersawn) for example). I'd had my doubts, too, and he confirmed them. Fortunately, mine sounds excellent, as good as I'd hoped, so I'm pleased with it. The OP is fortunate to have inheritied his grandfather's example, and in such lovely condition!

    Despite it's very worn, heavily played condition, mine has survived without any cracks or other serious damage, which is some testament to it's build quality, and the care given by it's previous owners.
    Interesting. This one I would have taken to be a Martin from it's outward appearance. The earlier posted Beltone I wouldn't have. Are any of S.S Stewart labeled instruments listed in any of the the Martin books?
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  21. #45
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ann Arbor/Austin
    Posts
    6,281

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    Here's the Stewart labeled "Martin" from Jake Wildwood's site that Nick referred to earlier.

    I quibble with Jake now and then on his assignations, but not on this one, volute and all.


    I recall the conversation about Dave's Stewart mandolin and I was in the Martin camp on that one.

    Certainly it's hard to be definitive from photos.

    I haven't written any books on Martin but the call outs that Richard Johnston suspects don't seem overwhelming to me.

    I found a Favilla labeled flatback that folks were debating whether it was truly a Martin or a Favilla "copy".
    It's attached here, too.
    Looks like a Martin to me.

    My Ditson-Martin "B" had the same tiny fret dots but Martin used different sizes at different times.


    The volute seemed to disappear some time in the early '20s on the B and C models.

    I'm an advocate of Ockham's Razor.

    If Stewart didn't make them, who did?

    Mick
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Favilla Labeled Martin Front.jpeg 
Views:	31 
Size:	152.2 KB 
ID:	201530   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	mart-stew-01.jpeg 
Views:	31 
Size:	673.8 KB 
ID:	201529  
    Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
    ______________________

    '05 Cuisinart Toaster
    '93 Chuck Taylor lowtops
    '12 Stetson Open Road
    '06 Bialetti expresso maker
    '14 Irish Linen Ramon Puig

  22. #46
    Teacher, repair person
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Southeast Tennessee
    Posts
    4,078

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    Yeah, this is a tough one.
    Richard Johnston is considered to be a premier authority on Martin instruments by others who know an awful lot. I would tend to defer to his judgement.
    But I wonder whether he inspected the instrument in-hand when he made his statement?

    The Martin books that I have read show no pictures of mandolins with the Stewart brand, nor do they mention any made by Stewart. The do acknowledge the existence of Martin-made Stewart ukes.

    I find the idea of dyed fingerboards on a Martin product to be disconcerting at the least. I feel the same way about T-frets on a mandolin made before 1934. And the lack of a stamp of some sort would be highly unusual. But a lot of other things about the instrument look very Martin-esque.

    If I had the instrument in hand and confirmed that the bracing looks right, I would still tend to lean towards Martin as the builder. If it was not, I would call it a darn good copy, but I would not be able to venture a guess about who the builder might have been.

    Since the instrument is 900 miles away from me, I can't look at it or compare it with a Martin in-hand. I don't know how many early Martins the Girouards have seen, but I would be interested in their opinion.

    This instrument is an anomaly, and a rare one at that. The only way to confirm its origin would be to have at least 3 or 4 people who know Martin together with the instrument in hand, have them discuss it, and see if there is any consensus.

  23. #47

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    I'm going to see them next week so I'll definitely be asking them

  24. #48
    Teacher, repair person
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Southeast Tennessee
    Posts
    4,078

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    Well, debatable pedigree or not, it's an interesting antique mandolin with a great family history. And I'll bet 5 bucks that it sounds pretty good too.

  25. #49
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,875

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    Favilla was famous for copying Martin designs, did good work and was in NYC. It could have been built by them or by just about anyone that was trying to fill an order and had the technical know how. Richard and his partner Frank have been around these things a long time and I assume they have had a few more of these in hand than most of us and I also try not to rush to judgement but I saw the volute and figured they were at least close. What I was really looking for was that joint that created the first volutes that Martin used to do but this was most likely much later.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  26. #50

    Default Re: Old S.S. Stewart mandolin

    I would be surprised if a maker tasked with building a mandolin that was in the style of another maker would go so far as to slavishly copy the volute but I may be wrong. Clearly, an in-hand inspection would probably detect other detail differences in the construction but they would be most likely to be found inside the instrument and not noticeable to anybody who was not an expert with a well-attuned eye for such things. Certainly with the common "is it a Larson?" debate, one obvious area is the different volutes and other external differences in the binding etc. I suppose at some stage somebody will make a definitive pronouncement on who made an instrument such as this example. As I wrote earlier, there are other S S Stewart retailed mandolins that have a Martin look to them but are definitely not Martin crafted but the maker's identity has never been resolved and probably, never will be. The bottom line is, this is a fine instrument and will be judged on its own merit irrespective of who made it.

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •