Jimi Hendrix Mandolin Auction

[keith.rogers]

A gift from Janis Joplin goes for a bunch of $. https://www.tmz.com/2022/07/06/janis...auction-sells/

[tmsweeney]

the purchaser is lucky he did not not bring that out on stage at Monterey.

[keith.rogers]

A box of charred mandolin bits that he’d set on fire might have gone for more!

[Ranald]

At a selling price of $281,250, I have to wonder whether it's any good. Without Janis and Jimi's history, would it be worth more than $200?

[CarlM]

It is too bad Jimi was not a banjo player.

[journeybear]

At a selling price of $281,250, I have to wonder whether it's any good. Without Janis and Jimi's history, would it be worth more than $200?

My answer would be, no. My question, though, is, "Is it real?" Not that I would doubt the veracity of a report published by a bastion of truthful journalism such as TMZ, but it seemed to me finding a provenance would be in order. There is none in this article.

A google search produced dozens of repeated versions of the story by a variety of gossip sites. I did find the auction site, though, which goes into some detail about its history, and avers the existence of a certificate of authenticity and a provenance: https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...o-jimi-hendrix There are also three other pictures, front only. I am not familiar with the make: Lindell.

The mandolin comes with a certificate of authenticity from Jimmy Velvet's The Legends Collection, which states that the piece was acquired from the Memphis Music Hall of Fame. The piece will also come with a letter of provenance from Velvet's wife Robin which states in part, "an interesting conversation had taken place via the internet in 1999 while I was preparing an auction and doing research. A gentleman who stated that he was in fact, Janis Joplin's brother, felt that the mandolin had been a gift from Janis to Jimi Hendrix instead of what I had been told, that the mandolin was a gift to Janis from Jimi."

OK: "stated he was ... Janis Joplin's brother" and "felt that the mandolin had been a gift from Janis to Jimi" don't strike me as incontrovertible evidence of its authenticity. Also this bit gives me pause regarding the auction house's grasp of the truth: "Janis Joplin & B.B.H.Co" (Big Brother & The Holding Company, which was Janis' attempt to be part of an ensemble, rather than a solo artist). She was very much a member of the band, and then struck out on a solo career.

But who am I to say? I'm an amateur historian, along with most of the rest of us. Even if the lettering "Jimi Hendrix" is in a different color and hand, I'm sure there's a fairly credible explanation. Who am I to say? And even though, as far as I know, the only association between Jimi Hendrix and a mandolin is that a teenaged mandolin player (me) once gave Jimi a photograph of him made by a friend, and spent a few minutes in conversation with him, this too lacks a verifiable provenance and exists as hearsay. But who am I to say?

Oh, and I must say I'm surprised by the final bid. Provenance or not, clearly it is damaged. There are only six strings.

[Ranald]

I'm with you, Bear. I wouldn't go into my Scrooge McDuck vaults and grab $300,000 to spend on that mandolin without considerably better authentication than is on the website -- the certificate would have to contain a great deal more information than auction promo does. I looked at similar-looking Lindell's online for well under $200. One with "breakage" was going for $16. On another point though, Janis did sing under her own name before joining Big Brother and The Holding Company. She was a blues singer in Austin, then in San Francisco before fronting the band. YouTube has a number of fine videos of her singing the blues, and sometimes playing guitar in 1962 and '63, though she often has accompaniment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjO_...nel=JoshGeller

[MikeEdgerton]

This is the second one of these we've seen in the last few weeks. It's the round sound hole version of these and this one has destroyed the market for these.

[Ranald]

This is the second one of these we've seen in the last few weeks. It's the round sound hole version of these and this one has destroyed the market for these.

Yeah. Now, people are dumping them for $100,000 or even less.

[journeybear]

This is the second one of these we've seen in the last few weeks. It's the round sound hole version of these and this one has destroyed the market for these.

Yeah. Now, people are dumping them for $100,000 or even less.

Damn! Damn those damn collectors! I could snapped up one for less than a Jackson, painted something on it, and turned it around to be my retirement fund!

Janis did sing under her own name before joining Big Brother and The Holding Company. She was a blues singer in Austin, then in San Francisco before fronting the band.

Oh, I know. And Big Brother was a well-established band before she joined. It WAS magic together, though, especially "Cheap Thrills." I believe some of the guys grumbled a bit about her getting so much attention, separately from them, more and more. It kind of came to a head at Monterey, as I recall. In fact, the film producers paid them to reshoot "Ball And Chain" so they could get the visual portion just so.

[Ranald]

If they got paid for the reshoot, Big Brother did better than the other musicians. Janis Joplin's sister expressed, in her book about Janis, bitterness toward Big Brother and The Holding Company for persuading Janis that she'd be nothing without them. I too love Cheap Thrills. Big Brother wasn't her most sophisticated band, but whatever it was they were doing with Janis Joplin worked.

By the way, has anyone heard of either Hendrix or Joplin playing mandolin?

[DaveGinNJ]

I wish there was a video of Hendrix playing it. I wonder what that would have sounded like

[mandolin breeze]

Maybe something like this . . .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaHRstF-2qA

[Ranald]

Or this:




Before the discussion starts, the picture is a well-known fake.

[journeybear]

Or this ...




PS: I've read that Jimi, along with Joni Mitchell and Neil Young (and surely others), started out on baritone ukulele before moving to guitar.

PPS: I know Janis played guitar during her early career. She may have kept up with it at home, but on stage concentrated on singing.

[Fretbear]

[Jeff Mando]

FWIW, I used to be impressed with anything hanging in a museum and accepted the description and backstory as fact. Later on, after working both in the vintage guitar world and the collectible record world, I no longer believe every certificate of authenticity as fact, I'm sorry to say. I am familiar with both Jimmy Velvet and the Memphis Music Hall of Fame, as well as many other "collectors" who specialize in buying and selling celebrity owned instruments and rare records. While I won't comment on anyone specifically, I can tell you a certain portion, but not all, items in museums, restaurants, auctions, etc., are fake.

It is easy to do as much of the authenticity is based on a notarized letter and often "documented" with period photographs. Let's say you've got an old 30's National resonator guitar, maybe worth $3000-5000 today -- then you happed to noticed a photo in a book of Bukka White playing a similar guitar and a light bulb goes off.... Since Bukka White is dead, you go to his hometown and find someone who knew him and show them the guitar. They say, yep that's the one I saw him play many times and you type up a letter and take it to the used car lot and have it signed in front of a "notary." Let's say, his memory isn't so clear, so you offer him X amount of money and suddenly his memory improves. With a little work, a $3000 guitar becomes a $25,000 guitar, maybe more to the right person who is a fan. The scam obviously is amount making money, but it goes deeper, IMHO. I've met so many of these bogus celebrity seller/collectors I've come to the conclusion that mental illness is involved -- that is often being a fan and associated with a famous person is as much of a driving factor as the money itself, I believe. The reason it works and these people stay in business is that not everything they deal with is bogus, some items are actually genuine so it is hard to separate the forest from the trees. Like I say, I'm not talking about anyone in particular, but it is rampant.

Take it to the next level and say a dealer comes into a vintage guitar shop needing 4 or 5 guitars with specific years and finish color. Later you run into the guy at a guitar show and all his guitars for sale were once "owned" by famous people. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

For example to show a "gray area" years ago I bought an old movie still of Elvis at a flea market not far from Graceland. It was vintage and it was signed by Elvis, but I assumed the signature was fake since the item was only $10. I bought it anyway, cause I liked it. As I was paying for it and with no prompting from me, the store owner said, "That's cool isn't it? That came from Mrs. Johnson (not her real name), she lived on the street behind Graceland and Elvis gave it to her and signed it!" Probably wouldn't hold up in a court of law, but I repeated the story on eBay and sold it for $400 with no more proof than the story I was told. Who knows, it may have been purchased by a reseller who saw even more potential in it?!

Anyway, my life in collectibles has ruined me for having much faith in museums and auctions, etc. The fine art world is just as bad and the stakes are much higher. Caveat emptor...

[Richard500]

The public at large may even think that scamming the very wealthy is admirable. Forgers may derive satisfaction from fooling credentialed experts. The latest, the Orlando Museum showing a putative $100 million worth of Basquiats likely fake, won’t raise the hackles of most of us. Especially if we can’t grasp why this particular artist is so hot, and suspect that phenomenon in itself is a (legal) insider scam…
Fortunately, Janice, Jimi, and JM are beyond being outraged by such activity.

[allenhopkins]

Janis started out playing Autoharp. I'd pony up a few buxx for one that she owned, if the provenance could be established.


Apparently I can't imbed the YouTube vid that has her playing one, but here's the link if you'd like to hear her, 60 years ago...

[MikeEdgerton]

Let me try

[Ranald]

Janis started out playing Autoharp. I'd pony up a few buxx for one that she owned, if the provenance could be established.

By chance, I own that very autoharp. Janis bought it at the Carter Family lawn sale. There's some damage where she clouted Jim Morrison with it, which adds to its value. Janis later gave it to Kris Kristofferson as a gift, but Neil Young won it from him in a poker game. A relative of mine picked it up at the Young family lawn sale in Winnipeg. Fortunately, everyone from Ma Maybelle to Neil scrawled their names on it with Magic Marker, thus proving its provenance, except that Jim scratched his name on it with a coin, which was what they were fighting about. We can't do business here, Allen, but if your people contact my people...

[allenhopkins]

...We can't do business here, Allen, but if your people contact my people...

Couldja have "Jimmy Velvet" phony me up a Certificate of Authenticity? Then we could talk.

[BradKlein]

I know it's not the OP's intent, but I find this topic remarkably sad. The idea of this POS mandolin that almost certainly meant nothing to anyone, certainly not the musicians named, going for any serious money... it just makes me sad.

[journeybear]

I just want y'all to know, all this talk about "Jimmy Velvet" and his possibly nefarious doings irks me no end. One of the founding members of my old jug band, Washboard Slim And The Blue Lights, was a very nice guy by the name of James Velvet. That's his stage name, not his real name, but I'll bet dollars to donuts "Jimmy Velvet" is not an authentic name, either. James was one of our lead singers and rhythm guitarist for our first year or two, and the memory of his rich expressive baritone lingers with me still. I am grateful for the way he used to call for my lead by saying, "Mango!" This predated my tenure in Key West, so I'd say that was prophetic. Sad to say he joined the Angel Band a few years ago. So that obviates him of any suspected wrongdoing in this occurrence; he has an irrefutable alibi. Anyway, seeing this fellow's name and its suspicious associations irks me, as I said, though I am bearing up under the strain. Most of the time.

[Jeff Mando]

I know what you mean. My friend, whose name I won't mention, is also irked by the fact that a Google search for his name first brings up an infamous child molester of the same name....a shame, really.