Roger Siminoff's Book

[Jordan S.]

I'm interested in constructing my first mandolin and a book by Roger Siminoff was recommended to me by another builder. A quick search on Amazon seems to show that he has a couple books? Or just different editions? One is Contructing a Bluegrass Mandolin: Mandolin Reference; and one is The Ultimate Bluegrass Mandolin Construction Manual. Is one suggested over the other? The second is certainly newer, but that doesn't equate to better, I suppose. Any help here?

[Clicker]

Any help here?

Your public library probably has what's called "inter library loan" and you can actually loan them from other libraries at no extra cost to you. Figure out which one (or both) you like look them over for a couple of weeks and then buy from Amazon. I did that with Siminoff's Bluegrass Mandolin Construction and I went to Staples to get the plans run off full-size on their big copiers. -h

[Spruce]

The second is certainly newer, but that doesn't equate to better, I suppose.

In this case, I think it does...
Lots of corrections were made (I think), and the second one is the one to get...

But wait for more knowledgable responses from others before pulling the trigger...

[Steve Sorensen]

Adding to Spruce's note -- IMHO -- Help a wonderful small business - buy Siminoff's book (Updated version) and jigs directly from his site. The right way to start on many levels.

Then consider renting or buying Don MacRostie's mandolin building DVDs. Combining these two treasure chests of mandolin wisdom will take you far . . . and answer many otherwise perplexing questions!

Steve

[Pete Jenner]

You can never have too many books on the subject. You may want to consider 'The Mandolin Project' by Graham McDonald. Forget the library, the cost of a few books is a pittance compared with the dough you will outlay along the journey and IMO represents the best value for money you will encounter. If you throw in the towel, donate the books to the library.
Also consider:
* The Bandsaw Handbook
* A good book on finishing.

[Jordan S.]

Ah, yes! I would have been better served to start this thread by asking for book suggestions rather than specifying a book! I'd like to build a little library of helpful books. Anyone else have any recommendations?

[Andy Morton]

I have both books..... I actually consult both, but the the updated version has more detail and includes several revisions. I also rely heavily on the Cafe and other web and youtube sites (ie...violin and guitar building, hand plane making, chisel sharpening, the Guild of American Luthiers website, Musical Instrument Makers Forum, to name just a few of the sites you may want to check out). We are very lucky to have all of these resources available to us.

Andy

[Keith Newell]

Not saying anyone is right or wrong but if you have played and handled a bunch of mandolins and really got the feel for them you will see that all instructions are a "general" direction you should head. Ask the engine builder for a high performance motor and one for an off road, drag race, 24HR, endurance, street race, show and go and you will get a lot of different answers. I have built a few and the books were a great start, kind of like learning when to fertilize your lawn during what season but take them all with a shaker full of salt. (Sorry Sim) it was a great start and I have always used some of your basic stuff but have changed and respected on the same plate on a lot of other stuff. Stuff changes, stuff happens and sometimes it takes a personnel take on what the heck your doing....

[Pribar]

Ah, yes! I would have been better served to start this thread by asking for book suggestions rather than specifying a book! I'd like to build a little library of helpful books. Anyone else have any recommendations?

Three I would start with is the above-mentioned "Ultimate bluegrass mandolin construction manual" and "The Mandolin project", and a third, "Understanding Wood Finishing", not a mandolin manual per say, but it is invaluable for finishing work, I don't know your level of expertise with woodworking, so if you already have a good understanding of finishes please disregard, but the finishing seems to be where a lot of first time builders really have a lot of problems

[sunburst]

Anyone else have any recommendations?

I always recommend Understanding Wood by R. Bruce Hoadley. Also, any wood working text books you happen to find, anything written about musical instruments, their construction or repair, pretty much anything you find that is related to instruments. Books about tools, sharpening, maintaining, using them, and tool safety.

[Dale Ludewig]

Bob Benedetto's book and videos on archtop guitar construction are also valuable.

[Marty Jacobson]

Not a book, but in addition to everything mentioned above, Peter Coombe's website has some very useful insights. Additionally, Lawrence Smart's "Modern Mandolin" address from the 1995 GAL conference is also very helpful.
Understanding Wood, Siminoff's Ultimate, and Benedettos' archtop construction books have been very helpful to me.
You can skip The Art of Tap Tuning by Siminoff, IMHO -- there are better resources for learning about the physics behind instrument construction, specifically The Science of String Instruments in which Cafe regular Dr. David Cohen contributes a boatload of information about mandolins, and, a little further afield, the Gore/Gilet tomes.
I would also recommend every luthier read and understand Machine Shop Practice. When I became a metalworker, my woodworking skills improved a hundredfold. You can make wood bend to your will, but metal is unforgiving. Treating wood as if it were metal will help you get to the cleanest path and demystify things such as how to achieve truly square, flat, and perpendicular surfaces, even if you don't use metalworking tools. Taking the extra time to plan everything carefully, like a chess game, is painful, but with the extra effort.

[Geoff B]

Jordan,
I have an extra copy of Siminoff's ultimate book left over from my class. Email me your address and I can get it to you.

Cheers,
Geoff

[Jordan S.]

Thank you! I'll email you now. Nice to find you here!

[Jim Hilburn]

I got the first Siminoff book in about '77 before I ever built a mandolin but I knew I was going to. It was both a blessing and a curse. Not having any other reference I relied on it like the Bible but now wish I would have paid more attention to old Loar photo's even though they were hard to come by except for looking at Monroe albums (which I didn't have either.)
I still don't understand why the body shape and especially the scroll were so far off the mark. The section on choosing wood is pretty thin. You'd expect the term "quartersawn" to be in there somewhere. And the endgrain illustrations are all wrong if you want the face of the wood to be bookmatched. Some bad advice in terms of build order and several other questionable things, especially now in retrospect.
But on the other hand, with no other way to approach the subject at the time, at least for me it was something that made the first one happen. And it was aimed at a guide for a beginner so credit must be given where due.
When I got the book I was living in Austin. Too bad I didn't run into Tom Ellis!
Here's that first mandolin which is still hanging on my wall. It was finished in the spring of '80. I played it a lot but it isn't that great sounding. By the way, that's a Nugget finish on it.

[Pete Jenner]

At least Roger wrote a book.
I'm looking forward to the 'Definitive Hilburn Guide to Compound Dovetails'.
Got a release date yet Jim?

[Jim Hilburn]

Dovetailing has been one of the more hard to find subjects, hasn't it.
I have to take my hat off to Mike K. for showing me how to do it in about 1980.

[Spruce]

I got the first Siminoff book in about '77 before I ever built a mandolin but I knew I was going to. It was both a blessing and a curse. Not having any other reference I relied on it like the Bible but now wish I would have paid more attention to old Loar photo's even though they were hard to come by except for looking at Monroe albums (which I didn't have either.)
I still don't understand why the body shape and especially the scroll were so far off the mark. The section on choosing wood is pretty thin. You'd expect the term "quartersawn" to be in there somewhere. And the endgrain illustrations are all wrong if you want the face of the wood to be bookmatched. Some bad advice in terms of build order and several other questionable things, especially now in retrospect.
But on the other hand, with no other way to approach the subject at the time, at least for me it was something that made the first one happen. And it was aimed at a guide for a beginner so credit must be given where due.

I could have written that whole exact post....seriously.
I had the Morgan "plans" for building an F5 too--everything on two 8 x 11 sheets of paper...!
My how things have changed...

Here's what I came up with back in '78 or so:



Nice pic, but the mandolin really sucked air...

Dovetailing has been one of the more hard to find subjects, hasn't it.
I have to take my hat off to Mike K. for showing me how to do it in about 1980.

You mean that you and Mike K. don't do a straight miter and then drill in for the two dowels....?

(Hi Roger, and thanks!!)...

[Jim Hilburn]

Hey, Bruce, I bet you knew a heck of a lot more about wood than I did!

[Pete Jenner]

Dovetailing has been one of the more hard to find subjects, hasn't it.
I have to take my hat off to Mike K. for showing me how to do it in about 1980.

Yes it has indeed.
Hats off to you Jim for showing me how to do it.

[Spruce]

Hey, Bruce, I bet you knew a heck of a lot more about wood than I did!

Not then...
I was living in Berkeley, and couldn't tell a Doug Fir from a Sitka Spruce...

I remember Roger's original book recommended Douglas Fir for a top, but I think I wound up with spruce from the lumberyard...

But when I moved to Orcas Island in '79, suddenly there were mandolins growing everywhere, and I started salvaging them...
Beach logs, firewood piles, and old stair steps...
But I digress...

[Jim Hilburn]

Austin wasn't a tonewood mecca but I had a Vitali's catalog and ended up ordering viola wedges.

[sunburst]

The Siminoff book was my mandolin start too, later though, early to mid 80s. I was already working wood and working on instruments (had built a banjo and was learning repairs), so I took what I needed from the book and improvised the rest. My first was an A, not an F5, the neck was dovetailed and the design was my own. I just wish I had those hours of my life spent agonizing over "tap tuning" back!

[Dale Ludewig]

Bruce, that's pretty good looking for a first. I, too, was a student of Roger's first book. There wasn't much else out there back then. David Russell Young's guitar book, Sloane, etc. I remember after building my first F5 how you had to think ahead about the inside slope on the scroll, where it comes up to meet the button- you have to allow for all that movement 'after' the binding is installed 'before' you cut the rabbet. On my first, I didn't think about that and so the binding just kind of comes up and meets at a quirky angle. Tonally it kind of sucked. Underbuilt. Thankfully I had a flood in my shop about 10 years ago and that 1979 mandolin was submerged. What my fondness for my first buildings could not allow me to throw into the garbage bin, a broken water main made easy. I don't think I even saved the hardware.

[Michael Lewis]

I recall a discussion soon after I found the internet that had a remark that both the Benedetto archtop book and Roger's mandolin book would lead you deep into the forest and you wouldn't have enough bread crumbs to get home. I found some frustration trying to follow the directions the first time through, but once you have been down that path you pretty much know what lies ahead and you can figure out what you need to get you through any difficulties you find. The point is to get through the process, get the experience.

If you treat the books as an educational process and forget trying to make a masterpiece the first time through you will be in a better position to do much better job the second time through the process. It will be what YOU make of it.