Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Is this an A-2Z?

  1. #1
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Saint Augustine Beach FL
    Posts
    6,634

    Default Is this an A-2Z?

    There is a 1924 Gibson snakehead in the classifieds that looks to me to have the A-2Z sound hole rosette. It is a black top and I know there has been discussion about this before. Could it just be a regular snake head with the Rosette and not labeled "A2-Z"?

    Thanks, Charley

    https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/191871#191871

    NFI
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

  2. #2
    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Fort Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    3,859

    Default Re: Is this an A-2Z?

    Ask for the serial number and FON. There are some mandolins that I suspect started their life in a batch of A2-z’s before some type of blemish appeared requiring a blacktop to cover it. I only remember seeing one that had A2-z on the label.
    1924 Gibson A Snakehead
    2005 National RM-1
    2007 Hester A5
    2009 Passernig A5
    2015 Black A2-z
    2010 Black GBOM
    2017 Poe Scout
    2014 Smart F-Style Mandola
    2018 Vessel TM5
    2019 Hogan F5

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to pheffernan For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    Teacher, repair person
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Southeast Tennessee
    Posts
    4,078

    Default Re: Is this an A-2Z?

    To qualify as an A-2 of any kind, it must have a bound fingerboard and bound back.
    So no, this is not an A-2. This one is just a plain style A. There are three other 1920's black plain A's floating around on reverb with similar rosettes, so apparently these rosettes became standard for the plain A's at some point.

    And we do see atypical rosettes on A models from time to time.
    I remember a 1915 blonde plain A that had a solid center ring made of a doubled white binding material. The instrument was unquestionably in original condition, so I suspect that it was done at the factory to cover up a tool slip or other mistake.
    Last edited by rcc56; Aug-21-2022 at 7:32pm.

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to rcc56 For This Useful Post:


  6. #4
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    13,103

    Default Re: Is this an A-2Z?

    I question the seller's date of 1924. You don't see the inlaid logo going straight across the headstock like that until 1928 or so.

    This is late in the snakehead era, and late-era snakeheads are notorious for not conforming to spec.

    There are a handful of blackface A2Zs that actually say A2Z on the label. This isn't likely to be one of them.

    That being said, it could be a wonderful instrument.
    Emando.com: More than you wanted to know about electric mandolins.

    Notorious: My Celtic CD--listen & buy!

    Lyon & Healy • Wood • Thormahlen • Andersen • Bacorn • Yanuziello • Fender • National • Gibson • Franke • Fuchs • Aceto • Three Hungry Pit Bulls

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mrmando For This Useful Post:


  8. #5
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Saint Augustine Beach FL
    Posts
    6,634

    Default Re: Is this an A-2Z?

    Thanks for the insights guys, just trying to further my understanding of Gibson mandolins from this time period.
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

  9. #6
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default Re: Is this an A-2Z?

    Confusing, eh? I have mine from 23 but it does have binding on the top and back and around the fretboard. Also the label says "A-". I also wondered about the straighter logo. Maybe it was in the warehouse and unfinished until later? For comparison, the ad one and mine.

    All I can say is that there was some sort of chaos at Gibson in those years. Probably many cooks stirring the broth.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	191871.jpg 
Views:	131 
Size:	299.0 KB 
ID:	202848 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	23A2_black_jg.jpg 
Views:	116 
Size:	126.7 KB 
ID:	202849
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  10. The following members say thank you to Jim Garber for this post:


  11. #7
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,875

    Default Re: Is this an A-2Z?

    One of the few things that were consistent at Gibson at that time was that they were inconsistent.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  12. #8
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default Re: Is this an A-2Z?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    One of the few things that were consistent at Gibson at that time was that they were inconsistent.
    I have heard that, too. Oh, to be a fly on the Gibson factory wall at that time.

    “Hey, Joe, I just noticed that the fret template is off by a bit.”

    ”Ah, don’t worry. Most mandolin players will never notice. They don’t use those frets anyway…”
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  13. The following members say thank you to Jim Garber for this post:


  14. #9
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,875

    Default Re: Is this an A-2Z?

    I also suspect that the Gibson company was growing more mature as a manufacturing company and starting to realize they needed to clean out parts inventory so if they had one thing and not another they apparently substituted what they had. It certainly became common on the Gibson second lines in the 30's
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  15. #10
    Registered User Glassweb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    3,110

    Default Re: Is this an A-2Z?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Confusing, eh? I have mine from 23 but it does have binding on the top and back and around the fretboard. Also the label says "A-". I also wondered about the straighter logo. Maybe it was in the warehouse and unfinished until later? For comparison, the ad one and mine.

    All I can say is that there was some sort of chaos at Gibson in those years. Probably many cooks stirring the broth.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	191871.jpg 
Views:	131 
Size:	299.0 KB 
ID:	202848 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	23A2_black_jg.jpg 
Views:	116 
Size:	126.7 KB 
ID:	202849
    Hey Jim... although everybody has referred to Andy Statman's legendary black-top Gibson snakehead as an "A2z" it is, in reality, marked on the interior label just as yours... an A2-. It appears yours is identical in every way to Andy's.

    Gibson... business as unusual!

  16. #11
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default Re: Is this an A-2Z?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Confusing, eh? I have mine from 23 but it does have binding on the top and back and around the fretboard. Also the label says "A-". I also wondered about the straighter logo. Maybe it was in the warehouse and unfinished until later? For comparison, the ad one and mine.

    All I can say is that there was some sort of chaos at Gibson in those years. Probably many cooks stirring the broth.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	191871.jpg 
Views:	131 
Size:	299.0 KB 
ID:	202848 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	23A2_black_jg.jpg 
Views:	116 
Size:	126.7 KB 
ID:	202849
    Quote Originally Posted by Glassweb View Post
    Hey Jim... although everybody has referred to Andy Statman's legendary black-top Gibson snakehead as an "A2z" it is, in reality, marked on the interior label just as yours... an A2-. It appears yours is identical in every way to Andy's.

    Gibson... business as unusual!
    Well, mine is pristine compared to his. When I got mine I used to see him often in NYC. I never got to compare our Gibsons though. I assume he still has his but mostly plays other mandolins these days.

    Here's what his looked like:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	snakehead.jpg 
Views:	75 
Size:	46.8 KB 
ID:	202919
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  17. #12
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Saint Augustine Beach FL
    Posts
    6,634

    Default Re: Is this an A-2Z?

    Holey pick rash Batmen!
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

  18. #13
    Teacher, repair person
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Southeast Tennessee
    Posts
    4,078

    Default Re: Is this an A-2Z?

    The designation "A-2Z" was a marketing ploy that Gibson used for only a year or two.
    There was a catchy ad copy that I'll have to paraphrase that ran somewhere along the lines that the model was "the best thing from A-2Z" [A to Z].

    Most of the ones with the "Z" designation were blonde. I do recall coming across at least one or two black ones that did indeed have the "Z" on the label.

    A-2's all had bound fingerboards and backs, and pearl inlaid logos. Most, if not all of the "Z's" had multiple top bindings. Some of the Z's had rosettes with a solid white center ring, others did not.

    Plain A's or A-1's with a solid center ring are sometimes confused with A-2's. I see a lot of old Gibsons with pencilled model and serial numbers on the labels that are no longer readable, and a few that have been altered. That contributes to confusion over model numbers.
    Last edited by rcc56; Aug-26-2022 at 6:26pm.

  19. #14
    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Fort Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    3,859

    Default Re: Is this an A-2Z?

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    Most of the ones with the "Z" designation were blonde. I do recall coming across at least one or two black ones that did indeed have the "Z" on the label.
    This is the only one I recall with photographic evidence:

    https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...ossible-answer
    1924 Gibson A Snakehead
    2005 National RM-1
    2007 Hester A5
    2009 Passernig A5
    2015 Black A2-z
    2010 Black GBOM
    2017 Poe Scout
    2014 Smart F-Style Mandola
    2018 Vessel TM5
    2019 Hogan F5

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •