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Thread: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice

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    Default Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice

    Hello! I’m a high school student, and have been playing the violin for around 7 years now. I depart for college in a year and a half, and I plan on taking up 2 to 3 non-music majors. However, I want to continue playing music, even outside of an orchestra. To this end, I figured that picking up another instrument could be a good move to help stoke that love of music. I decided on the mandolin, specifically the bowlback for its use in classical and Celtic music, my forte (and also how I got my username!) I also really like its general aesthetic (DnD players know what I’m talking about lol bards ftw). As a teenager, I do not have many funds, especially while renting a violin. and, while I would like to upgrade in the future, at the moment I am just looking for an instrument on which I can mess around a bit, with sound quality being a relatively low priority. I’m also of the opinion that the player matters more than their tools in producing a good sound. All of this being said, are 1970s Suzuki bowlbacks any good? I’ve come across a couple of really affordable ones on eBay:


    https://www.ebay.com/itm/35424618582...et_ver=artemis


    https://www.ebay.com/itm/32531210821...temCondition=4

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/23465691289...temCondition=4

    Also, does anybody know what the design on the pickguard of the first is? It looks vaguely humanoid to me, but I cannot tell.

    Thank you for taking the time to read my ramble and I cannot wait to join this community of musicians!

  2. #2
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    Also, does anybody know what the design on the pickguard of the first is?
    It appears to be a stylized female possibly dancing.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    Or flying.
    The poster should note that all three vendors are in Japan, and there are risks of undisclosed issues, non-return, shipping damage. Condition and setup are vital on mandolins so you can be looking at expenses equal to the purchase price or more.
    Buy locally if you are not currently in Japan, preferably from someone who can test drive the instrument. Also, search this site for opinions about the brand.

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    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    It appears to be a stylized female possibly dancing.
    How odd! Definitely wouldn’t go with that one, then.
    Last edited by Nimue; Aug-28-2022 at 1:43pm.

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    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard500 View Post
    Or flying.
    The poster should note that all three vendors are in Japan, and there are risks of undisclosed issues, non-return, shipping damage. Condition and setup are vital on mandolins so you can be looking at expenses equal to the purchase price or more.
    Buy locally if you are not currently in Japan, preferably from someone who can test drive the instrument. Also, search this site for opinions about the brand.
    Those are some very good points. I haven’t seen any listings online near me, but that would obviously be preferable to buying internationally. I imagine the high number of Suzukis in Japan is due to the location of the company. The vendors do say that they will cover return costs, but idk the exact details about that. I do have a family friend who is a luthier, so setup (might) be taken care of. Thank you for the reply, it was very helpful!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    In purchasing a bowlback mandolin possibly the most important thing to look at is the string height. They are made for extra light strings and many have been overstrung pulling the neck which ruins the instrument. Many have had the bridge cut way down to deal with this damage. If looking on line, look at good side view pictures.

    If you have access to someone who knows mandolins or at least fretted instruments they may be able to help you out. It is best if you can get it in hand. Even the best player will not be able to deal with strings that are 3/16 inch off the fretboard and it will not play in tune. When you purchase a bowlback mandolin be sure to string it with extra light strings, (.009 for the smallest strings) to prevent damage. Standard strings, even light gauge will cause damage.

    Of these, one does not have side view pictures. The two that do look like the strings are high to me. There is room to lower the bridge on them but it is still not ideal.

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    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    What is the consequence of having strings which are too high? I'm sorry for the likely-idiotic question.
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    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    High strings are harder to press down on the fretboard. It can be indicative of issues with the setup or condition of the instrument and you want to be able to fret cleanly.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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  10. #9

    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nimue View Post
    What is the consequence of having strings which are too high? I'm sorry for the likely-idiotic question.
    It will be extremely physically hard to play, especially up the neck. It may be painful to play. This can lead to tendonitis and other issues. It may be impossible to fret some chords or notes without buzzing or muting adjacent strings. It will also not be possible to place the bridge so the instrument plays completely in tune with itself if it is really bad. Talk to your luthier friend and they can explain it all.

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    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    Ah, sounds fun!
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    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    Suzuki mandolins borrowed a lot of their form, style and looks from Raffaele Calace (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raffaele_Calace), who made a big splash in Japan. If you want one, you can find one here. That way, as said before, you can inspect it and play it before plunking down your money.

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    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    Good to know. I mean, I'm not seeing any bowlbacks where I live, but I will keep an eye out for that name.
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    Hexagons are the Best-Agons!
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    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    Is it worth considering the 60d return policy on the last two as well as this? Or does it not really matter, and these sellers will go back on those policies?
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    Hexagons are the Best-Agons!
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    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    I also am obviously a little put off by descriptions like "Good condition!" and "Please check photos for condition" without mention of any scratches, and narrowing my filter to exclude those and stores with return policies under 60 days has led me to narrow it down to this.
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    Hexagons are the Best-Agons!
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  16. #15

    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    Those Suzikis are not very fine instruments to start with. They can be made playable with the right setup only if they don't have structural issues at the first place. Spending a little bit more will buy you a much better instrument. Try Dave Hynds www.mandolinluthier.com who restores old Italian mandolins. That way you will get a playable instrument that you will enjoy playing at once.

  17. #16
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    You might tell us generally where you live even just the continent.

    I owned a 1970s Suzuki bowlback and it was over built and not very responsive. In actuality ultralight strings probably would not work. From what I understand there may be some decent instruments made by the company these days assuming they are still making them. However I am in the US and I don’t believe the good ones are imported here.

    Frankly unless you must have a bowlback I would steer clear of them. Especially if you are settling for ones with little tone just go for a decent beginners instrument. Otherwise you may be looking for trouble. And I own and play bowlbacks and have owned both new and vintage.

    You don’t have to have a bowlback for classical music. Many classical players these days don’t use them. And I don’t know of any Celtic players who do. You can really play any music on any mandolin.
    Last edited by Jim Garber; Aug-29-2022 at 8:27am.
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    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    You might tell us generally where you live even just the continent.

    I owned a 1970s Suzuki bowlback and it was over built and not very responsive. In actuality ultralight strings probably would not work. From what I understand there may be some decent instruments made by the company these days assuming they are still making them. However I am in the US and I don’t believe the good ones are imported here.

    Frankly unless you must have a bowlback I would steer clear of them. Especially if you are settling for ones with little tone just go for a decent beginners instrument. Otherwise you may be looking for trouble. And I own and play bowlbacks and have owned both new and vintage.

    You don’t have to have a bowlback for classical music. Many classical players these days don’t use them. And I don’t know of any Celtic players who do. You can really play any music on any mandolin.
    Interesting, I hadn't known they weren't the go-to classical mandolin anyway. I also like portability, which makes other types better. I also imagine set up is easier. I think I'll get another type of mandolin and save over time for a nice bowlback, eventually. Thank you for the very helpful comment!
    Oh and I live in Ohio, US, btw

    I'll probably go for an A-type, their shape is also very bard-like
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    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    Be sure to check out flat-top instruments. Good quality flat tops can be had for relatively little money, and they work well in the genres you mention. Some of us are real fans of this style of mandolin.
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    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post

    You don’t have to have a bowlback for classical music. Many classical players these days don’t use them.
    Perhaps in the USA, but in Europe the bowlback is still popular for classical music.

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    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    Nice, I will! Any recommendations for starter brands which I could look for? I'm also sure it is more likely that I will find *most* styles of mandolin other than the bowl-back closer to my location, and probably for a better value as well. I am glad that you and Jim Garber have widened my view of the best styles of mandolin for classical.
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    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    To be clear, I am a big fan of bowlbacks but when you are looking at the lower end, not so much. The excellent ones I own that did not cost much were vintage ones but I was generally lucky to find a few exceptional ones that did not need work. OTOH my best bowlbacks i invested some serious work into and they were worth it.

    My point anyway, was to get Nimue into mandolin with what he can afford. I would second Bob Clark's suggestion for a flattop mandolin, if possible and for other types, if the budget allows, to at least have a solid top and well-set up.
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    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    That makes sense. I definitely plan to get a bowlback eventually, but I think it would be a good idea to start with something else.
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  28. #23
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    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    I read an article about affordable beginner mandolins, and it recommended the Kentucky KM-150, which looks like a good future choice, as well as the Ibanez M510 (available new here) and the extremely cheap Rogue RM100A, which I have heard is okay, once you set it up, it just, like the Ibanez, has a duller tone because of laminate wood. However, this wood also helps with durability, which is obviously a consideration for a high school student. All of these are F-hole, however, and the difference in the sustain of an oval-hole does appeal to me. I came across the Savannah SA-110, which seems to be like the Rogue, but it is just not reviewed so much as the Rogue, so I cannot be sure. If anybody could look these over, would the Savannah, Ibanez, or Rogue work best for experimentation, and is the Savannah about as good as the Rogue?
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    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    Ah, looks like the Savannah can have a warped neck, and has no truss rod, so probably not.
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  30. #25
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    Default Re: Hello! I am new and in need of some bowlback advice.

    i just did a quick google of 'used bowl back mandolins in ohio' and mostly came up with ebay and other auction or guitar sites (including an offering for a "rare ... 1893 bowlback mandolin. It has the original strings on it" which actually made me laugh -- can you imagine playing on strings that old?) but that did remind me that you can reach out to any of the cafe's sponsors and see if they have a used bowl back for sale. they're not wild sellers as instruments and you may get one relatively cheaply; you can probably put a 'wanted' request on the cafe's instrument sale pages as well. Just a thought.

    I owned a $49 Rogue and it was fine after I got a $60 setup -- a little plinky, but my ears weren't trained enough to notice at the time -- and you have a luthier in the family who may be able to do the setup for free or a family discount, plus there's rob meldrum's free ebook and you can set it up yourself. Just remember that callouses for mandolin won't line up with whatever you have (if any) from playing violin; the fretting hand and the standard notation are already there. ... a pick is not a bow, though, and takes a different technique.

    There are a couple cafe members in Ohio who may be able to help you on your quest, by the way. depends on where in ohio -- northeast? south central? akron-area?
    --------------------------------
    1920 Lyon & Healy bowlback
    1923 Gibson A-1 snakehead
    1952 Strad-o-lin
    1983 Giannini ABSM1 bandolim
    2009 Giannini GBSM3 bandolim
    2011 Eastman MD305

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