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Thread: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

  1. #1

    Default Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    54 years old, why not learn how to play a mandolin.

    A couple years of grade school piano and trumpet, so my foundation is super strong. Love music, avid consumer of all kinds of live music, partial to bluegrass /traditional Irish, Trampled by Turtles, Dire Straits and Dinosaur JR.

    I just found a very cool Kentucky KM -200S for under $200. Mandolin for Dummies on the way, as well as a Chord Chart and a strap. Been browsing the site, as well as a couple You Tube Lessons.

    Anyone have any nuggets they would like to impart as I kick this thing off?

    Thanks
    Chris

  2. #2
    Registered User JiminRussia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    Yes.
    1. Don’t make work out of this. It’s supposed to be fun, not drudgery, so don’t push yourself too hard. I did that 25 years ago and burned myself out. It took that long and a pandemic to get me to pick up an instrument again.
    2. Find a few “fun” tunes to play, and play what YOU enjoy playing, not what anyone else tells you you should be playing.
    3. Don’t get frustrated. If there is something that just completely stumps you, back away from it and let it rest for a few days and then go back to it again with a fresh attitude.
    4. Don’t get caught up in some of the useless banter about which tone wood is best or what strings to use or most importantly. “Do I need a better instrument?” Right now, it doesn’t matter and it won’t for another couple of years. As long as you cannot play up to the capabilities of the instrument that you have in your hands, you don’t need another instrument. Yes, that includes the “playability factor” which can always be resolved with a good set-up.
    5. Speaking of set-ups, get one done by a competent technician. It is always worth the cost, and is probably the most important factor to the beginning player.
    6. Quit listening two blowhards like me that have all the advice in the world, but can’t play worth a hoot.
    There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't.

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  4. #3

    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJD257 View Post
    54 years old, why not learn how to play a mandolin.
    Anyone have any nuggets they would like to impart as I kick this thing off?
    Welcome to the Cafe Forum. As another guy who started this adventure in his early 50s, the first thing that comes to mind is this...

    Try to be comfortable and relaxed when you practice. It's pretty natural to get tensed up through your back, shoulders, neck etc while you concentrate on learning this new skill. When you feel the tension coming on... take a break... loosen up!
    "I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb

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    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    Great advice already given. I would echo, keep it fun. Play stuff you like. Don't set your expectations too high at first but have goals. Get the instrument out of the case and do some type of practice with it EVERYDAY. Improvement will slowly and steadily come your way. Also, lots of good training info on the internet. Good luck with your journey. It is a rewarding one.

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    Registered User bwnunnally's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    There are several mandolin-related hobbies. Mandolin practice & playing, mandolin shopping, purchase & collecting, mandolin luthiery, songwriting, singing, song collecting, mandolin discussion, wood tones, string dynamics, pick dynamics, mandolin recording techniques, etc. All help enrichen the experience, but I try to stay aware of how much time I am spending on mandolin but not practicing and then stop and practice or play a bit instead. In other words, be mindful which hobby is your focus, whichever it turns out to be.
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  10. #6

    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    Get a stand! Have that mando hanging on a stand next to the couch or your favorite chair so it’s RiGHT THERE to play every day.
    Pick a song or two that you know pretty well and learn the chords for it. Instant gratification is powerful.
    I was 55 when I started, two short years ago this month. I’m still a beginner but I’m a beginner with sixty songs in my set list and a new one every week

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    Registered User Sue Rieter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    My first mandolin was also a Kentucky KM200S. I bought it online, and despite the seller telling me it was ready to go, it had very high action. The bridge saddle was already all the way down, and I had to take a big amount off the bottom of the bridge. I did it myself, with advice from here. I also changed it over to light strings. A few months later, I bought another instrument, and took both of them for professional setups. He took even more off the bridge of the Kentucky. Night and Day. You can't overestimate the importance of setup.

    One more thing. I started a little before Don, but don't have any where near 60 songs I can play. Don't get hung up in comparisons, just keep on playing and have fun.
    Last edited by Sue Rieter; Aug-30-2022 at 9:21am. Reason: One more thing ...
    "To be obsessed with the destination is to remove the focus from where you are." Philip Toshio Sudo, Zen Guitar

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    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    Welcome to the cafe! Check out the Newbies group; several of us Newbies are Oldies. Mutual support as we learn is what the Newbies do.
    New to mando? Click this link -->Newbies to join us at the Newbies Social Group.

    Just send an email to rob.meldrum@gmail.com with "mandolin setup" in the subject line and he will email you a copy of his ebook for free (free to all mandolincafe members).

    My website and blog: honketyhank.com

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    not a donut Kevin Winn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    mandolessons.com

    Lots of us got our start there.

    And welcome to the Cafe!
    "Keep your hat on, we may end up miles from here..." - Kurt Vonnegut

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  18. #10

    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    Don't compare yourself to the pros. They do this full time and have spent thousands of hours at it.

    It takes more time to get good than anyone expects. But what else have you got to do with your time? It is better than watching the stupid box.

    Play a little every day. 15 minutes or half an hour a day everyday will get you farther than 20 hours over two days on the weekend.

    The right hand(picking hand) is more important than the left. That is the engine that drives everything.

    Rhythm and timing is the most important musical thing to attend to. Wrong notes in time sound better than right notes out of time.

    Learn chords and accompaniment as soon as possible. When playing with others you spend far more time accompanying than playing melody.

    Find others to play with. That will progress your playing quicker than anything.

    Learn to listen. Your ears should be constantly open. Listen to yourself as you play as well as others. Learn to hear when chord changes are coming, what the rhythm is (3/4, 4/4, 6/8 etc.), where the melody is going. You can practice this even as you listen to the radio or cds.

    Use a strap.

    Establish the habit of a light touch. Most beginners push too hard on the strings. It takes really little effort if the instrument is set up right. That is probably the number one problem players send up having to overcome. The pick should dance over the strings rather than dig in and the left hand should lightly move freely from place to place. No tension!

    Sing the melody when you learn a song. Learn them phrase by phrase rather than the whole song at once or one note at a time.

    There is no bottom to this endeavour. You can spend a lifetime learning as much or as little as you want. You will never learn it all or get as good as you want to be.
    Make sure it is fun.

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    Registered User Marcus CA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    To the great advice that others have already given, I would add ...

    Around here, I don't get the sense that 54 qualifies you as old. (I'm a card-carrying Medicare member.)

    Along with what Flatrock Hill advised, I'd say to pay attention to anything that begins to resemble a repetitive stress injury. For playing longer than 15 minutes, I have to wear an elbow brace because of tendinitis that developed in my left elbow from playing chop chords on my third mandolin, which unlike its predecessors, had a flat fretboard.

    Along with what BigDaddyJ advised, improvement can also plateau, which is discouraging, but it almost always is temporary, so keep on keeping on if that happens.

    Good luck playing Dire Straits on mandolin! Mark Knopfler plays his leads fingerstyle.

    For other online resources, I'd suggest checking out Mike Marshall's bluegrass mandolin course on Artist Works, because the first lessons deal literally start at Square 1: how to hold a mandolin and pick properly/efficiently, etc. Then, they gradually take you higher from there. Also, you can submit videos for Mike to help out with your playing, assuming you don't get the red-light freeze like I do. On Peghead Nation, Sharon Gilchrist offers a Beginning Mandolin course, which is probably great.

    Also, I love using the Strum Machine app. It gives you backing tracks for lots of bluegrass and Irish songs and tunes, and lets you set the tempo at whatever speed you want. It also lets you incrementally increase the tempo as you play the song/tune.

    Finally, JiminRussia's #1 is my #1. However, for his #6, in the music world, people who feel that they "can't play worth a hoot" often can. They/we feel that way because what we play often is nowhere near as good as what we meant to play, but nobody who is listening to you can hear the music that's in your head for comparison.
    still trying to turn dreams into memories

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  22. #12
    Registered User Sue Rieter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    Quote Originally Posted by CarlM View Post
    ... Learn chords and accompaniment as soon as possible. When playing with others you spend far more time accompanying than playing melody. ...
    This is why Don has 60 songs and I don't. I only started seriously working on chords and rhythm relatively recently. And I started playing in the throes of covid.

    I'm attending a Wernick Jam Camp weekend after next. I can't wait and expect to learn alot. I mentioned elsewhere, I bought the "Slow Jam" video as a prep. I wish I had it when I started, you can start playing rhythm with two simple chords !!
    "To be obsessed with the destination is to remove the focus from where you are." Philip Toshio Sudo, Zen Guitar

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  24. #13
    Registered User mbruno's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    If you're not used to playing stringed instruments - you'll likely have build some callouses up which can be a bit painful at first. The more you play, the faster you'll build callouses - so play often

    The best thing I would advise is to breakup your playing into two parts. Spend 15 - 30 minutes learning and practicing something - like a chord progression, scale, picking hand exercises etc. This is more academic learning side of playing. After doing that, spend about the same amount of time (or more) playing with that. That's the candy you get after doing the work

    Fiddle tunes are a great way to practice scales (typically major or major pentatonic) and chords - so those are worth looking at. There's a bunch of great and simple standards that you can start with - Old Joe Clark is a great first fiddle tune IMO. If your longer term goal is just to play with friends and have fun - likely you can all you need from just learning fiddle tunes

    Above all - have fun.
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  26. #14
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    Another new old guy here. I started in maybe my late fifties. All good advice above. I'll echo three bits that I've found especially useful:

    - Keep your body relaxed — hands, arms, shoulders, back, brain, everything.
    - Get a pro setup.
    - Get a stand.

    And I'll add one more:

    - Find folks to play with! Other beginners are fine. You'll get much better much faster and have more fun doing it.
    Last edited by Charlie Bernstein; Aug-30-2022 at 3:22pm.
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    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    When you play, don't let the fingers on your left hand fly off the fretboard. Try to keep them close, even when they're not pressing on a string.

    Also when you play, don't let your pick get far away from the strings. Keeping it close will help your speed and accuracy.

    I was self-taught and it took me years to un-learn my bad habits. I'm hoping these two suggestions will help you avoid an unnecessary detour. Good luck!

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  30. #16

    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    If you plan to join jams, learn to pick out chords from songs you don't know in real time. That way you can play accompaniment to songs you dont know yet. I do this by listening to recorded songs and trying to learn them by ear. Learning to watch guitar players' hands and recognizing what chords they are playing is helpful too.

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    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    67 years old here: so from one old guy to another— That KM-200S has a solid spruce top. I had one and it is a well built starter mandolin. Made in Japan, likely? I second the recommendation Kevin made of mandolessons. Baron Collins-Hill is a really interesting and methodical teacher. Welcome to the world of the mandolin.
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  34. #18
    small instrument, big fun Dan in NH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    I just turned 57 and started mandolin about a year ago. When I try to do single note melody I am always very disappointed in my tone, which leads me to practice scales and scales and scales, trying to get a consistent tone across all four courses.

    One of the best things anyone ever told me was it's only natural to sound like a beginner when you ARE a beginner, and utterly unreasonable to expect that you'd sound any other way. And in order to sound like you've been playing mandolin for five years, it takes about five years.
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  36. #19
    small instrument, big fun Dan in NH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    One of my favorite Tommy Emmanuel quotes is "Before there can be music there must first be skill." So you have to spend a lot of time teaching your hands to do musical things.

    One thing I learned is that you have to train each hand separately. You train your left hand to fret the strings, make chord changes, run the scales, and as you watch your left hand get its act together your right hand is constantly picking the wrong strings, or picking the right strings with inconsistent dynamics.

    You start watching your right hand, alternate picking while you run scales & arpeggios, and your left hand no longer fingers the strings in the "sweet spot" just behind the fret, so your tone suffers.

    You alternate your practice, and eventually you get to where your hands can alternate pick and run scales & arpeggios while you look at the ceiling.

    So you put on a recording and try to play along, and as you try to listen and play at the same time both hands immediately forget everything they ever learned.

    It is all very much baby steps, and reinforcing old skills while you learn new ones.
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  38. #20
    Moderator JEStanek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    Welcome to the cafe from a fellow older dude who still plays like a beginner. Have fun. Play some tunes.

    Jamie
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  40. #21
    Registered User Jill McAuley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    Lots of great advice though I think the left hand is just as important as the right hand. Poor left hand position can result in inability to develop speed and accuracy and worse still could lead to carpal tunnel etc. Practicing good technique from the get go will put a strong foundation in place to build from. As rickbella mentioned, the mechanics of keeping your fretting hand fingers close to the fret board, avoiding excess pick travel in the right hand etc. are habits that once installed will become automatic and stand you in good stead for progressing on the mandolin. There's lots of great online sources for learning nowadays but it can also be really helpful to get a few one on one real time lessons with an experienced mandolin instructor (as opposed to the guitar guy at the music shop who advertises that they also "teach" mandolin, but end up just treating it like it's a little guitar) whether that be in person or via Skype or Zoom, so that an experienced eye can check out your mechanics. Variables such as how you hold the mandolin, how you hold your pick, the angle of your left wrist when fretting notes, excess motion in the right hand etc. can all impact fluency, speed etc. Welcome to the world of mandolins!
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  42. #22
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan in NH View Post
    . . . One thing I learned is that you have to train each hand separately. You train your left hand to fret the strings, make chord changes, run the scales, and as you watch your left hand get its act together your right hand is constantly picking the wrong strings, or picking the right strings with inconsistent dynamics.

    You start watching your right hand, alternate picking while you run scales & arpeggios, and your left hand no longer fingers the strings in the "sweet spot" just behind the fret, so your tone suffers.

    You alternate your practice, and eventually you get to where your hands can alternate pick and run scales & arpeggios while you look at the ceiling. . . .
    I knew a classical pianist who was completely flummoxed by stringed instruments. The idea of using two fingers — one on your left hand, one on your right — to play one note was utterly unreasonable and unworkable.
    Gibson A-Junior snakehead (Keep on pluckin'!)

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  44. #23
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jill McAuley View Post
    Lots of great advice though I think the left hand is just as important as the right hand. Poor left hand position can result in inability to develop speed and accuracy and worse still could lead to carpal tunnel etc. . . .
    And you have one big advantage over a lot of us latecomers, CJD: You don't have to unlearn years of guitar habits!
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  46. #24
    Registered User Ed McGarrigle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    I’m about to turn 68, third year beginner. I’d recommend lessons and The Amazing Slowdowner.

  47. #25
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old New Guy -Any second day tips?

    Good advice in this thread. Though working on scales and technique by yourself is very important equally so it playing with other humans. Find other folks to play with, some maybe with more experience who can show you stuff but equally important to find other musicians to play with who are at your level. And they can be mandolin players or can just be at the same level on other instruments and who are interested in playing the same music the same music you are.

    Also use technology especially to slow down tunes and sings you are using. YouTube has a built in speed setting or you can get some stand alone apps.
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