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Thread: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brock View Post

    The mandolin is an Eastman MD315, my cheapest mandolin, but one I liked well enough to plan to keep forever. I didn’t particularly care for the blotchy finish, so that was a factor. Click image for larger version. 

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    I applaud your efforts if only for the improvement over the "blotchy" finish!
    too many strings

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  3. #77
    Registered User Doug Brock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    Quote Originally Posted by MojoMando View Post
    Now here's the weird part. They sound different from a regular Master Model. Don't ask me why, because I have no idea why the distressing process should change the sound. They have a slightly "drier" tone."

    ------------

    Big Joe Vest said,

    "The Distressed Master does have a markedly different tone. It is drier and older sounding. Not only do they look old, smell old, and feel old, but they also sound old. I have a couple of theories, but that is all they are. It is the next best thing to having the real thing and even better than some of them! Try it, you'll like it!"
    I noticed a similar change in sound on my Eastman MD315 when I relic’d it. “Drier” and “older sounding” are the same thing I noticed. (Definitely no intent to imply that my Eastman is in same universe as the Gibson, lol.)
    Last edited by Doug Brock; Sep-20-2022 at 10:57am.
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  4. #78
    Registered User Doug Brock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    By the way, I’ve recently heard some podcast interviews with violin collectors in which the collectors noted that hundreds of years ago, violin makers were already doing things to make their new violins look old and worn so that the violins would be more appealing to their customers.
    Doug Brock
    2018 Kimble 2 point (#259), Eastman MD315, Eastman MDA315, some guitars, banjos, and fiddles

  5. #79

    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brock View Post
    Ok, I am guilty, I relic’d a mandolin!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Looks believable to me, Doug! Good job!

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  7. #80
    small instrument, big fun Dan in NH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    I’m looking at a varnish finish mandolin for my next instrument, either an Eastman 515/v or an Eastman 815/v (and I challenge you to find one of those in the wild, they’re very nearly mythical). I understand those come SLIGHTLY distressed from the factory. I plan to add an armrest, pickguard, and Tone-Gard to try to preserve the factory finish as long as possible.

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    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brock View Post
    Ok, I am guilty, I relic’d a mandolin!
    Click image for larger version. 

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    And here am I, using weeks on end filling out pick wear grooves on old instruments with shellac, before sanding and polishing the whole instrument
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  9. #82

    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brock View Post
    Ok, I am guilty, I relic’d a mandolin!
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Not a big Eastman fan here, and I'm ambivalent re the whole 'relic-ing' thing. I have to say though that you did a really nice job on that 315 Doug.
    "I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb

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  11. #83
    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    Is it considered "relic'ing" or distressing if you remove the finish off a mandolin neck? Or can it be considered simply a playability improvement if you like the feel under your hand? Because I did do that to my Lebeda mandolin. I admit it was at least partially the visual appeal and similarity to a violin neck.

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  13. #84
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    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    Quote Originally Posted by J Mangio View Post
    It boils down to personal preference.
    I vote for honest play wear.
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    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    Quote Originally Posted by foldedpath View Post
    Is it considered "relic'ing" or distressing if you remove the finish off a mandolin neck? Or can it be considered simply a playability improvement if you like the feel under your hand? Because I did do that to my Lebeda mandolin. I admit it was at least partially the visual appeal and similarity to a violin neck.
    For looks, it's relicking. For function, it's modding. Sounds like you swing both ways.
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  16. #86

    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan in NH View Post
    ...those come SLIGHTLY distressed from the factory. I plan to add an armrest, pickguard, and Tone-Gard to try to preserve the factory finish as long as possible.
    If I hear you correctly, you want to preserve the factory distressing, but not add to it?

  17. #87
    small instrument, big fun Dan in NH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    If I hear you correctly, you want to preserve the factory distressing, but not add to it?
    I'd rather there wasn't ANY factory distressing, but I definitely don't want to add to it.

    Varnish finish is famous for showing wear, but also famous for allowing instruments to open up more quickly, and display a more mellow tone. I like the idea of the varnish finish, and accept that it will require more diligent care on my part.
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  18. #88
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brock View Post
    By the way, I’ve recently heard some podcast interviews with violin collectors in which the collectors noted that hundreds of years ago, violin makers were already doing things to make their new violins look old and worn so that the violins would be more appealing to their customers.
    Yes, and since this thread is going into multiple pages I point to my earlier comment here on that very subject of violin relicking: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...=1#post1878497
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  19. #89
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    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    Regarding Charlie Derrington and Joe Vest's comments that the distressed instruments sounded different than their non-distressed counterparts, well, I'm about as much of a luthier as I am an astronaut and couldn't tell you the difference between a Virzi and a cannoli, but this doesn't sound so far-fetched to me.

    If we assume that the weight or stiffness or thickness of the finish on an instrument has a dampening effect on the vibration of the wood, then removing X amount of the finish will result in Y amount of increased area where the wood can vibrate differently, no?

    What am I missing here?

  20. #90

    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    Quote Originally Posted by rnjl View Post
    If we assume that the weight or stiffness or thickness of the finish on an instrument has a dampening effect on the vibration of the wood, then removing X amount of the finish will result in Y amount of increased area where the wood can vibrate differently, no?

    What am I missing here?
    Not sure what you're missing, but there's 27 years worth of discussion on every conceivable side of that debate lying somewhere in the Cafe archives. Enjoy!
    "I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb

  21. #91

    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    Something I read years before the internet days, which I will attribute to Dan Torres, the amp guru. Basically, when discussing instrument finishes, he said " Have you ever picked up a can of paint? It's heavy. You want the thinnest finish you can on an instrument."

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    I showed up help replace the floor at a coffeehouse I was part of. I was told I have the cleanest tools for man my age that were ever seen.
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  23. #93
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    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    Quote Originally Posted by rnjl View Post
    If we assume that the weight or stiffness or thickness of the finish on an instrument has a dampening effect on the vibration of the wood, then removing X amount of the finish will result in Y amount of increased area where the wood can vibrate differently, no?

    What am I missing here?
    It may vibrate differently, but is the different vibration an improvement in tone? Or does it sound worse than it did before? That's the crux of the thousands of posts here and elsewhere on the subject, and isn't it odd that everyone assumes it's always an improvement? Human nature strikes again!

    I'm obviously a skeptic on that issue, because there are so many variables. As just one example of how difficult this is to discuss, I have a mandolin with a redwood top. That's generally considered a soft tonewood, but this particular top is fairly hard. It has only collected one minor dent in the 15 years I've had it, but it's still redwood and not spruce.

    It has a hard lacquer finish, generally considered worse for tone than varnish, but it's very thin. I can see the ripples of wood grain when light reflects on the top. Is this thin and very hard lacquer improving the tone because it's helping to stiffen that redwood top? If I removed the lacquer, would the now-softer top sound worse? I'm not going to try it.

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  25. #94
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    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    Related to the points above, I would be interested to hear from luthiers whether they consider any & all finish applications to compromise tone in general. Do their instruments sound better in the white but they feel the need to apply a finish to protect them? Do they aim for a certain tone in the white knowing that it will be tweaked (favorably) by the application of their preferred finish in certain ways? I would assume a finish causes some kind of change in the tone. (?)
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  26. #95
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    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    All I will say about it is this:

    No finish: Bad for the instrument.
    Thick finish: Bad for the sound.
    Thin finish: Better for sound than thick finish.

    I will add that some of the big factories finish their instruments much too heavily. Lacquered Gibson instruments built over the last several decades often have enough lacquer to cover 3 or 4 instruments.

  27. #96
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    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    PS - My style is more distressed playing on a regular mandolin.
    Gibson A-Junior snakehead (Keep on pluckin'!)

  28. #97

    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    PS - My style is more distressed playing on a regular mandolin.


    Finally, a position on this topic I can agree with!
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    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    I purchased a used black top 87' Flatiron Festival ( I confess because Norman Blake is holding a black top F on on the cover of "Original Underground Music from the Mysterious South", and Norman is my hero) so I got it when it was about 33 years old. The top was lacquer but it was faded and very scratched. I had a Luthier (Tom Dobrovich more of a guitar guy) wet sand it off and reapply black lacquer, and it came out great. I don't have any way of measuring or comparing the thickness of the old to the new lacquer, but the new finish seems thicker. Now he did other things like clean up the fretboard and dress the frets, replaced the plastic nut with bone, and reinforced the bridge, but to me the tone is considerably improved, it was on the tinny side before where as now there is more bottom and end and the tones seems more "round" . To Foldedpath's point, the finish may or may not help the sound regardless of the thickness. I think we all agree less is more here. That 87' Festival probably sounded awesome out of the shop, but it did not age well ( lets face it it was abused- Tim's home for mishandled mandolins), as the lacquer faded, I assume it was a thinner layer over the top. So natural distressing is not always positive.
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  30. #99
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    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    Something I read years before the internet days, which I will attribute to Dan Torres, the amp guru. Basically, when discussing instrument finishes, he said " Have you ever picked up a can of paint? It's heavy. You want the thinnest finish you can on an instrument."
    Hehe. Everything is heavy if you have enough of it :-)

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    Kentucky KM-805..........2 Hora M1086 Portuguese II(1 in car)
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    Richmond RMA-110..... .Noname Bearclaw
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    Puglisi Pocket 1908........Puglisi 1912.......Puglisi 1917
    3 Mandolinetto ..............C.Garozzo
    1 Mandriola...................Cannelo G. Mandriola...Böhm Waldzither 1921
    Johs Møller 1945............Luigi Embergher Studio 1933
    Marma Seashell back......Luigi Embergher 5bis 1909

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  32. #100
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    Default Re: Distressed Mandolin and Regular Playing

    I have a number of older instruments and I play them out regularly. I am cognizant of the fact that I am a caretaker for these, and ultimately they will be passed to other players when I am gone, so I try not to abuse them. But, if own them, they are going to get played in public. A lot.

    Every older Gibson guitar I have purchased has had some significant wear around the soundhole, some more than others. This seems to be a constant among Gibson players! So if you are into "distressed", Gibson is the way to go.

    Speaking of modern faux distressed instruments, I understand the appeal, but I think it is totally silly. Don't worry, if they last long enough, they will all be distressed at some point. At least then it is honest wear, and not a marketing gimmick.

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