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Thread: TS, TRS, TRRS, anyone know why my doesnt microphone work?

  1. #1
    Registered User Simon DS's Avatar
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    Default TS, TRS, TRRS, anyone know why my doesnt microphone work?

    Ok, there are four 6mm sockets for each dial on this Zoom H6. There’s also a 3.5mm socket at the top with the microphones. I need to attach the external microphone so I can use it at the same time as the two dedicated microphones. It wont work.

    It will work, no problem if I attach it’s cable to an iPad. But that’s it.

    Anyone know what I’m doing wrong?
    Does the microphone (cardioid I think) need a power supply?
    If I attach a set of four connector ear plugs (TRRS) to an adapter to go into a 6mm socket, I can use the tiny speakers as pretty good microphone/pickups, but again that is all.

    I’ve tried a voltmeter on all possible output pins from the microphone and nothing, yet as I say it works great even with a 5 metre cable and an iPhone.


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  2. #2

    Default Re: TS, TRS, TRRS, anyone know why my doesnt microphone work?

    It depends entirely on the type of microphone. WHAT IS IT?

    Back when I had my original H6 (not the new one) as well as the F8 model, the 1/4" input was strictly for instrument or line level input (settable in the menus, somewhere). You could not plug in a microphone, i.e., set that input for "mic level", and you could not supply phantom power via the 1/4" jack. Only the XLR.

    Now, the fact that you plug it into an iPad suggests it's a small condenser, and need "plug-in power" to operate, as they are almost always small condenser microphones needing some small voltage, but not 48V phantom power. If it's a mic that has a 1/8" (3.5mm) plug, it needs to be plugged into the same size jack that's in the external mic, and you need to set plug-in power on.

    https://www.zoom.co.jp/sites/default...dfs/E_H6v2.pdf
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    Default Re: TS, TRS, TRRS, anyone know why my doesnt microphone work?

    As Keith says, it depends what type of mic it is. If it needs to be powered the way to do this is covered on page 88 of the manual but be careful sending power to a mic that doesn’t need it could destroy it.

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    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: TS, TRS, TRRS, anyone know why my doesnt microphone work?

    The Boya mic is TRRS. (tip,ring,ring, sleeve) an iPad will take TRRS, the Zoom is expecting TRS. The way a TRRS mic presents itself is with the mic on the Sleeve and the common ground on the adjacent ring. When you plug it into the TRS socket on the Zoom it just shorts both to ground, so there's no signal for the Zoom to see.
    You need to get a TRRS socket to TRS jack adapter to use with the Zoom. That adapter will take the TRRS Sleeve and put it on the tip with the ground on the TRS sleeve, so you'll have a sensible signal to work with.

    Here's a wiring diagram to illustrate;

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    I notice the Boya mic has a TRS angled jack for its output, so you may be able to just use a standard TRS - TRS cable straight from the mic to the Zoom. Try plugging the red cable direct from both Boya mic to the Zoom.
    Eoin



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    Registered User Simon DS's Avatar
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    Default Re: TS, TRS, TRRS, anyone know why my doesnt microphone work?

    Many thanks Keith, Ray and Beanzy I really appreciate you taking the time to help and share this info.

    So it works! (Partly)
    I plugged the red lead with the TRS ends into the electret, active condenser microphone that requires power. 5 volts is standard for iPhone (I think). And the other end into the small 3.5mm input on the right in the photo. Nothing. Then switched on 3.5 mm socket power using software.
    And it works! Quite well. I compared it’s quality to the dedicated balanced microphones and yes there is quite a difference in quality but there you go. I was quite happy that the external microphone was still quite good.

    Two downsides: quality and I can’t use the dedicated microphones at the same time. But it could be useful with the 5 metre extension lead.

    So then I thought why not plug it into one of the 6mm sockets and crank up the power using the software. After all, my battery powered ukulele bass works fine with a 6mm. TS cable here.
    Choice of voltages to plug this little microphone into: +12 +24 or +48 volts.

    Hmmm. I thought +48 volts might be over-kill, so why not +24 volts?

    Why not indeed?
    So thanks to you Ray, I chickened out.
    -And the little microphone still works fine.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Maybe I could supply the microphone a +5 volt line (to the ‘mic’ pin?) and then plug ground and signal into the 6mm socket using a mono cable TS?

    And maybe I can use my two old tiny Apple headsets as a four microphone pickup for the octave mandolin and have left and right speaker meaning closer to or further from the bridge ?
    Another project.
    Last edited by Simon DS; Sep-21-2022 at 7:37am.

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    Default Re: TS, TRS, TRRS, anyone know why my doesnt microphone work?

    ..... or buy a mic(s) which will plug into the XLR sockets on the sides of the unit. https://www.thomann.de/fr/cat_GK_mi....iOjR9&reload=1

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  11. #7

    Default Re: TS, TRS, TRRS, anyone know why my doesnt microphone work?

    I agree that a "regular" mic with an XLR cable seems to be the obvious answer, but if we understood what the actual "use case" for the recorder/mic(s), or maybe constraints, even financial, was that is driving this adaptation, it would help.

    Generally (IMO), you would not want to mic the same, single source with the [connected] XY pair at a distance and a close-up mic, unless the only purpose of the XY is to capture "the room." If you are trying to capture 2 sources, then a standalone XLR mic is my first choice. But, if you are looking for something small, unobtrusive, then a lavalier mic, perhaps wireless, may be the right place to investigate. Just adding your iPad's combination mic/earbuds seems like a contrivance for some unknown purpose.
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    Registered User Simon DS's Avatar
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    Default Re: TS, TRS, TRRS, anyone know why my doesnt microphone work?

    Thanks Keith, one of the reasons is that I like to record mandolin outside and sometimes it’s using a wide angle lens, for example as in intro shot. Then move to a close shot for the tune. If I can have two microphones then I can change the sound balance from distance to intimate as the visuals change.

    Another is that I like the feeling of presence in the audio when adding a small amount of close mic. It depends on how much other sound it about, wind in the trees, aircraft, birdsong. It’s nice to have options here.

    And it would be good to be able to record someone else singing but as you say, it’s probably much easier to attach the Boya mic to and old out-of-date iPhone and use that. Good also to be able to transfer audio files quickly from one device to another.

    It’s true, I could just buy my way out of these issues but that could become an issue too. Anyway it’s a good mental exercise.

    And the Zoom H6 is basically a recording studio, it could actually record four people playing: electric bass, bodhram, banjo and a big accordion on different tracks all at the same time.

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    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: TS, TRS, TRRS, anyone know why my doesnt microphone work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon DS;[URL="tel:1879373"
    1879373[/URL]]
    And the Zoom H6 is basically a recording studio, it could actually record four people playing: electric bass, bodhram, banjo and a big accordion on different tracks all at the same time.
    Here's a cool example of what can be done outdoors with one & a few mics and a leads (and a bucket load of talent too

    Last edited by Beanzy; Sep-21-2022 at 4:24pm.
    Eoin



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    Default Re: TS, TRS, TRRS, anyone know why my doesnt microphone work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon DS View Post
    Thanks Keith, one of the reasons is that I like to record mandolin outside and sometimes its using a wide angle lens, for example as in intro shot. Then move to a close shot for the tune. If I can have two microphones then I can change the sound balance from distance to intimate as the visuals change.

    Another is that I like the feeling of presence in the audio when adding a small amount of close mic. It depends on how much other sound it about, wind in the trees, aircraft, birdsong. Its nice to have options here.

    And it would be good to be able to record someone else singing but as you say, its probably much easier to attach the Boya mic to and old out-of-date iPhone and use that. Good also to be able to transfer audio files quickly from one device to another.

    Its true, I could just buy my way out of these issues but that could become an issue too. Anyway its a good mental exercise.

    And the Zoom H6 is basically a recording studio, it could actually record four people playing: electric bass, bodhram, banjo and a big accordion on different tracks all at the same time.
    If you get the XLR attachment (to replace the XY mic) you can record 6 tracks at a time with an H6. I did that a lot before I got the F8. (Here is an open mic group I did with the H6 - most of those recordings are gone now, and I probably only used 4 channels via splitters on this one.)

    I am pretty sure I don't agree with changing the sound, and mic, when changing camera angle. With video, I do think it's important to have an idea of what the environment is, and include a mix of direct and ambient sounds so it feels "real" but taking the listener out of their audience chair and putting their ear against the mandolin, to me, seems like it would be just too unusual, but it's your art!
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  17. #11
    Registered User Simon DS's Avatar
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    Default Re: TS, TRS, TRRS, anyone know why my doesnt microphone work?

    Sorry, I didn’t say it correctly.
    I mean it’s like a Hollywood movie when there’s a landscape panning shot and then an actor starts talking before the camera view has changed to them. It’s often used to provide continuity. So you can do the same with audio, a landscape audio (mic on extension) and then an close-up, intimate audio, (mic on H6) but the two audio tracks don’t necessarily have to match the video precisely either.
    Nice open mic recording BTW.
    Last edited by Simon DS; Sep-22-2022 at 1:22am.

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    Registered User John Kelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: TS, TRS, TRRS, anyone know why my doesnt microphone work?

    The link you put in to your last posting here, Keith, is a great example of using gear like the Zoom to get a really good sound (listening on headphones here). You have a setup which works for you and the band and instruments and vocals are all clear in the mix. You seem to have three mics and two instruments in your setup on the video.

    I can see differences in what you have done here and what Simon goes for in his outdoor videos where he finds a location and sets up his gear to get a good mandolin sound, which is his primary objective, then wants to include various extraneous "sounds of nature" in his video, as well as perhaps adding backing track(s) which are recorded indoors in different environment and mixed into the final track. In my own videos I avoid live outdoor recording as my postings are generally multitrack and I try to get the same sound quality on each track. Many of my videos where I am playing on camera are recorded using my Tascam DR-05 for the main melody track along with the camcorder, but I delete the camcorder track once I have got them lined up in my video editing software as the Tascam gives a better sound quality. We all strive to get the best results from the equipment we have at our disposal, and I think the most important aspect of this is that we are so familiar with whatever gear we use that it does not get in the way of our creative urges.
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