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Thread: Mandolin Up-Cycling

  1. #1
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
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    Default Mandolin Up-Cycling

    This is not something I'd normally do, indeed some might consider it sacrilege, but I'll post here anyway so you can all criticise me if you want. I might

    Some time back I acquired a couple of bowlback which had nice enough bowls, but otherwise had too many issues to be worth rescuing. Time to strip them down to just the bowl and turn them into new(-ish) instruments.

    This is very much a back-burner project, so progress over the last several months has been glacial, but there is at least a little to share now.

    First up is an F DeMurada bowl, the paper lining has been soaked off (there was a cloth or gauze lining under that which also went), and new maple lining fitted, and yes it's a little untidy round the back of the bowl, but still much less so than the original lining which was clearly fitted by someone who had as much difficulty as me working to that shape! Plus this all experimental luthiery here folks

    The old loose softwood tailpiece block has been replaced, and some new chunkier kerfed linings added too. I'm hoping all this will strengthen and stiffen up the bowl a little while keeping it nice and light, but we'll see I guess.

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    While I was at it, I cleaned up the outside of the bowl to see what I had to work with, looking not bad at all, but there's some old, day-glow white, filler here and there, which may well cause me finishing issues later on.

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    The new neck has had a bit of work too, here with Golden Age tuners being test fitted:

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    That's all for now folks, no idea when the next instalment will be, but I think I'll probably just have fun experimenting with this one.

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  3. #2
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Up-Cycling

    Not sacrilege at all IMHO! You are giving this a new lease on life. Bravo! This is a labor of love and this bowl can make music again!
    Jim

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Up-Cycling

    Sacrilege would be to paint the mandolin shaped objects blue and sell them as decorative art pieces. Sacrilege would be to cover them in bling and try to sell them as great mandolins.

    Good luck and keep us posted as you can.
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  6. #4
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Up-Cycling

    A tiny update: experimenting with bending the cant in the top.

    Now, I've seen this done on a mould, but for Neapolitan bowlbacks, the typical scorch marks on the underside of the top suggest a hot pipe. I don't happen to have one of those, as I've always used an electric bending-iron, so I thought I'd give that a go. The usual wet-bend on offcuts went fine, but concerned that steam would simply unstick the centre seam, I also tried a dry bend: that was rather difficult and resulted in a bit of fibre tearing. So... to summarise, I ended up dripping water into the "groove" avoiding the centre seem as much as possible, and then bending. Very much a case of "stead as she goes", quite hard to get the thing moving, but you keep at it, and gradually the bend gets there:

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    The "groove" BTW was simple routed out, then the sides chamfered. The depth of the groove leaves a 2mm thick top in that area which matches the instruments I've measured.

    BTW The annular ring around the soundhole is a very non-tranditional addition: it's made from maple with grain at right angles to the top. I believe it may have been John Hamlett in this very forum where I picked up that trick: seems to stop the top wasting energy by flapping around uselessly in that otherwise weak area and increase volume and definition. Time will tell how that works out.

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    Registered User sebastiaan56's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Up-Cycling

    I have a piece of angle iron that i put onto my electric bending iron with some hose clamps. It makes the bending a bit easier as you dont have to keep swapping the sides you are bending. Ive learnt not to keep the iron too hot and the actual bottom of the crease is about 1.5mm. FWIW I bent to 7degrees with a 2.5mm cant. More than enough rigidity IMO.

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  10. #6
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Up-Cycling

    Can't believe it's been two whole months since I last posted on this, there has now been a little progress and the instrument is strung up in the white.

    First off here's the bracing pattern I used, lots of reinforcement around the soundhole and neck area, but otherwise very Neapolitan in style:

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    And with the top on, still lot's to do including the binding:

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    The instrument has been in the white for a while due to a truly terrible buzz. Every time I played a chord or anything loud, there was a dreadful "tzzzzzz" sound coming out of the bowl. You couldn't even tune her properly because my clip on tuner just wouldn't lock on.

    You wouldn't believe the lengths I've been to to try and track it down. In fact I was basically ready to chuck the whole thing on the fire, and then I found it: the tuner buttons were all very slightly loose on the shafts. In and of themselves they made no sound, but the bowl amplified the vibration and made it feel like the sound was straight from the bowl! Brand new set of Golden Age tuners as well, ironically I would have saved those for the next build had she gone on the fire! Some thin CA on each tuner button, and now I can actually tune her up and play her.

    Working on the assumption that someone would say "how's it sound?", I did a quick side by side comparison to my Ceccherini, skip to 2 minute in if you don't want the preamble:


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  12. #7
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Up-Cycling

    Actually the upcycle sounds quite nice and even bold in tone. Excellent work, John!
    Jim

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Up-Cycling

    So let me ask a dumb question. Lets consider a run of the mill nothing special 110 year old bowl back that say hasn't been played in I dunno fifty years, so the tone is really kind of meh. May never have been and excellent instrument, or even very good.

    So it is not a basket case, and no specific enough issues. Certainly in better shape that what you have up-cycled. Playable, but it just sounds pretty dull and thunky, with no volume to speak of.

    Can a mandolin like that be upcycled?
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  14. #9
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Up-Cycling

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Actually the upcycle sounds quite nice and even bold in tone. Excellent work, John!
    Bold is a good word: it's much louder than I expected it would be, and that takes a bit of getting used too: the Ceccherini is naturally more subtle and I didn't adjust my playing for the differences between the two instruments which may make the new one brasher sounding than it will be once I'm used to it and can tease the best out of it.

    At least it's not going "tzzzzzzzzzzzzz" every time I hit a string now!

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    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Up-Cycling

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    So let me ask a dumb question. Lets consider a run of the mill nothing special 110 year old bowl back that say hasn't been played in I dunno fifty years, so the tone is really kind of meh. May never have been and excellent instrument, or even very good.

    So it is not a basket case, and no specific enough issues. Certainly in better shape that what you have up-cycled. Playable, but it just sounds pretty dull and thunky, with no volume to speak of.

    Can a mandolin like that be upcycled?
    Well how much do you want to replace?

    One of the best sounding DeMeglio's I've had through here, was I think 1897, and looked like it's neck had been really badly broken about 1900. It might as well as been in a time capsule: once repaired, neck angle and setup were perfect, probably just like they were when it left the factory. So 50-100 years of not being played could be argued as a good thing!

    I'm sure your meh-bowl-back could be improved somewhat without going to extreme lengths like I have here. But make no mistake, I have gone to extreme lengths, and if nothing else the result will be much better built than the original ever was: more rigid, fewer vibrational losses, better neck angle, probably higher quality top wood, chunky EVO fretwire etc. Basically everything I've learned about "why bowl backs break" rolled into one rebuild. Not a restoration at all. It's loud and bold and interesting, and I'm finally looking forward to finishing this one off.

  16. #11
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin Up-Cycling

    Some color washes and first coat of finish going on, in order the color washes are walnut, red, and yellow.

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