Fingerboard replacement due to CITES

[dd3190]

I'm about to buy a Gibson EM200 (aka Gibson Florentine). These electric mandolin always have fingerboards made of Brazilian Rosewood.

Such instruments are almost impossible to find in Europe (I'm from Germany), so I would have to buy one online from the US.

But now the Brazilan Rosewood fingerboard is a big problem -and perhaps the dot inlays, if they are, or can mistaken for, White Abalone.
For the Brazilian rosewood fingerboard it might be possible to obtain some kind of export permit, but a German import permit would also be required; both seem very complicated, and storage of the instrument would be necessary until the permits are granted (if they are) . An online seller is probably not willing to store a sold instrument two or three months.
Anything that looks like abalone has probably to be removed.

The only option I can see, is to have the mandolin shipped to an American luthier, and have the fingerboard replaced, before the instrument is exported.

Can anyone recommend a luthier in the US who can do this kind of work? Or does someone have a better idea altogether?

[rcc56]

Several of the US vintage instrument dealers routinely ship internationally, although it takes time for the paperwork to go through.
Have the seller check to see if one of them would be willing to handle the shipping and permits.

Some of them are Gruhn Guitars and The North American Guitar in Nashville, TN, Gryphon Strings in Palo Alto, CA, and The Music Emporium in Lexington, MA.
Whatever they might charge for such a service, it would have to be more practical and less expensive than replacing a fingerboard.

[Bazz Jass]

I purchased a mandolin internationally from Carters last year. They took care of the necessary CITES paperwork.

It took a few months I have to admit, and cost around $200, but arrived safe and sound. Far preferable to having such a dramatic alteration as a fingerboard replacement.

Before I knew about CITES I had a number of instruments with Brazilian Rosewood shipped to me from the USA. They all arrived no problem without any paperwork. That was 10 years ago mind you.

If you are buying from a reputable dealer, they will know what is required and take care of it for you. Good luck!

P.S. replacing the fingerboard may not get you out of the woods, as the instrument will still present as being a vintage EM200. Authorities could Google the specs and see Brazilian rosewood. You'd have to prove the fingerboard was NOT Brazilian which may be just a tricky as getting the right paperwork and leaving it Brazilian.

[dd3190]

Thank you all for your advice! So it is not that big of a problem as I thought . Elderly and vintagemandolin.com seem to have Gibson EM200s in stock; I'll ask them about international shipping. Tomorrow i'll check to see what Gruhn and the other dealers you suggested have in stock

Right now there is a nice EM200 on ebay, but not every ebayer is a reputable dealer ....

@Bazz Jass : Good point about the replacement fingerboard -I did't think about that!

[Jeff Mando]

Fingerboard replacement seems extreme and costly, IMHO. Not to mention removing an original and cool vintage feature -- and possibly even some of the instrument's vintage soul or vibe....

[dd3190]

If I get the necessary CITES permit and import the instrument, how much is my instrument worth then?

Just in case that anybody may find this interesting: I checked with the German government agency, Import of musical instruments with Brazilian Rosewood made between 1947 and 1992 is possible, but such an import is "strictly non-commercial". (My guess is that this is very similar in other EU countries.)

There are three exceptions:
1. You can perform with the instrument, even if you get payed (However, the instruments must not used in advertisement for the performance)
2 You can give it away for free
3 You can bequeath it

However such an instrument must not be sold or traded.
So, buying a 1959 les paul in the US and import it privately with a CITES permit may not be the best investment idea.

[Tavy]

Love it, play it, take it to your grave.

But yes, that's an issue isn't it.

[dd3190]

Tavy, of course you are right, however, the problem is obtaining a valid CITES permit:
Application for export permit, waiting up to six months, then having the documents stamped by the US Customs Service (Shipment must probably be shipped through a "Designated Port"),applying for CITES import permit &c.
In addition, there is an "Electronic Declaration" with the FWS required (The instrument has pearl inlays).

Thankfully, some of the well-known vintage instrument dealers are prepared to do all this paperwork; I have asked Elderly Instruments, and the would do.
Understandably, smaller dealers, or for individuals selling their instruments cannot.

So, there are only a few Gibson EM-200 (Gibson Florentine) electric mandolins on the market, and most of them I simply cannot buy.

On the other hand, these export requirements might provide a business opportunity to someone. I need someone

1. with a US address where the instrument could be shipped to

2. who can do the paperwork for me (CITES export permit and electronic declaration)

3. provides storage of the instrument until the papers are ready.

4. Ships the instrument internationally to Germany.

Is there anyone -perhaps a luthier or dealer- who has experience with CITES permits and is willing to offer these services?
Any help appreciated.

[Bazz Jass]

Tavy, of course you are right, however, the problem is obtaining a valid CITES permit:
Application for export permit, waiting up to six months, then having the documents stamped by the US Customs Service (Shipment must probably be shipped through a "Designated Port"),applying for CITES import permit &c.
In addition, there is an "Electronic Declaration" with the FWS required (The instrument has pearl inlays).

Thankfully, some of the well-known vintage instrument dealers are prepared to do all this paperwork; I have asked Elderly Instruments, and the would do.
Understandably, smaller dealers, or for individuals selling their instruments cannot.

So, there are only a few Gibson EM-200 (Gibson Florentine) electric mandolins on the market, and most of them I simply cannot buy.

On the other hand, these export requirements might provide a business opportunity to someone. I need someone

1. with a US address where the instrument could be shipped to

2. who can do the paperwork for me (CITES export permit and electronic declaration)

3. provides storage of the instrument until the papers are ready.

4. Ships the instrument internationally to Germany.

Is there anyone -perhaps a luthier or dealer- who has experience with CITES permits and is willing to offer these services?
Any help appreciated.

May just be better to wait until one of the big shops like Elderly have on in stock? If you let these shops know, they can contact you if they get one in stock. Maybe one will even turn up closer to you while you wait?

I think your scenario of involving a third party could be problematic. The store selling will claim no responsibility for anything that happens to the instrument after it leaves their premises. There will also be no comeback if there are any issues with the instrument, as the window of return is usually only 7 days.

[William Smith]

I thought with say antiques with paperwork saying originality etc. there should be no issue as I've been through this a few times with old Gibson's! Maybe laws have changed as they seem too about daily!

[Jeff Mando]

I noticed Carter Vintage currently has a Gibson EM-200 for sale. NFI. They should be able to handle the paperwork involved.