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Thread: Tips for accompanying a guitar?

  1. #1

    Default Tips for accompanying a guitar?

    I have started accompanying a friend that plays guitar and sings. If it is just the two of us, and he is playing various strum patterns on the guitar, what are the best ways to complement that with the mandolin? So far, I have just been matching his strum pattern with open chords and occasionally throwing in tremolos or fills on held vocal notes at the end of phrases.
    Is it better for the mandolin to match the guitar strum pattern or try to find something complementary (eg a bluegrass chop on an uptempo song)? Or do something else entirely, like look for opportunities to reinforce the melody with sustained tremolos and that sort of thing?

    Thanks for any ideas!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Tips for accompanying a guitar?

    Before the pandemic I played with a guitar friend weekly. I would do what I thought added to the music…I know that’s vague. When he was singing I would strum or fills, mostly inversions depending on what he was doing. When he was flatpicking I might just mostly chop in order to keep time during his solo, I didnt know enough to play any harmony but I might now if I could - not the entire break but maybe add a flourish or so as deemed appropriate.

    I think you guys will find what works, there are no rules except have fun.
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  4. #3
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    Default Re: Tips for accompanying a guitar?

    As a general rule, I try to -not- duplicate what others are doing. Arpeggios, runs, fills, double stop tremelos can all have their place - even if they're very simple. Feel free to change your approach and your volume frequently -maybe even 2-3 times per sung line- if it sounds good, based on the tempo, emotion, loudness, and/or absence of the vocal. Personally, I enjoy unusual inversions, such as moving the fretted notes of an open chord up the neck - an extreme but simplistic example would be open G an octave up: 0-0-14-15. Try to be subtle and unobtrusive, meaning don't step on the vocals ... usually. Sometimes loud is dramatic, and sometimes silence is golden (sorry!). As bigskygirl implied, if you're having fun, the listeners and your singing buddy will be, as well.

    Extra thoughts:
    - The dreaded-by-some bluegrass chop can work great in rock & pop tunes, and probably many others.
    - In my head, "bass runs" don't need to be played in a bass register and can sound great on mando in a sparse 2-instrument arrangement. They're simple, and also a good step toward more interesting fills.
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  6. #4
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    Default Re: Tips for accompanying a guitar?

    And oh yeah:
    "Arpeggios" doesn't have to mean just up and down the chord in sequence. Random-ish "cross-picking", which more-or-less duplicates a guitarist's finger-picking, is actually pretty easy when your fretting hand just holds a constant chord position, and sounds way more intricate than the effort it requires!
    Last edited by EdHanrahan; Oct-22-2022 at 12:42pm.
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  8. #5
    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tips for accompanying a guitar?

    I gig regularly switching off between guitar and mandolin, mostly mandolin, while my buddy carries most of the gig with guitar and vocals. We cover a fair range of styles.

    My mandolin playing is much like Ed describes. Sometimes I echo and carry a cool riff that the guitar plays which frees him to strum or solo on the guitar. Sometimes I cross pick to arpeggiate chords in a bit higher range. Sometimes I play “bass lines” that either echo or harmonize his bass lines. Sometimes I strum. Sometimes I’ll noodle around in the key, throwing in fills between vocals and lightly echoing the melody or harmonizing with it.

    All this can work, and he prefers me on mandolin for the bulk of our stuff. We rarely rehearse, and rarely play our familiar pieces of repertoire exactly the same way. Often, we play new tunes for the first time together on the fly. It’s fun and fresh, the audience loves it and we do have a small following.

    Everything we do doesn’t always work, but mostly it does. Can’t sweat it when you don’t feel you’ve done your best … you have to look to the next song and the next gig, enjoy playing & entertaining, and have fun. Stretch yourself and try new things and learn what works for you.

    When I’m on guitar, I’m often either playing different inversions of the chords or I’m leading a song. It’s all fun if you’re partnered with a musician who is at your level or better. Find a musical partner you really click with, experiment, and have fun. And remember the sage advice of Joe Walsh - the rock star, not the mandolinist - “If you act like you know what you’re doing, people will think you know what you’re doing.” Some day you’ll probably look back and realize that you really knew what you were doing after all.
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  10. #6
    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tips for accompanying a guitar?

    Just a postscript, like Ed, I forgot to mention chopping chords. Often works great on a waltz, or old folk or bluegrass type tunes. As to playing first time songs together on the fly in public, we’ve always done that as rehearsal isn’t alway possible, but also we sometimes take requests from the audience and will attempt almost anything.

    What you’re doing, teaming up with guitarist, has a lot of potential for your own fun and growth on the instrument, and maybe more. Enjoy it and don’t be afraid to experiment.

    Also, learn more positions for playing more than one inversion of the same chord on your mandolin, sometimes you can switch chord positions to voice the same chord in different ways in the same tune to add a interest!
    Last edited by Mark Gunter; Oct-22-2022 at 4:33pm.
    WWW.THEAMATEURMANDOLINIST.COM
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  12. #7

    Default Re: Tips for accompanying a guitar?

    My primary instrument is guitar so here are a couple of thoughts.

    The first is not to copy the guitar. Try to go places he is not. Complement and support him rather than copy. One of the worst things in jam session is where there are four instruments, guitarists are worst about this, playing in the same space. It just creates a drone of static. If he goes low, you go high, if he plays busy you play sparse, if he plays sparse you fill in the blanks, if he has the rhythm covered then add color or melody.

    The second is from my experience with a young mandolin player accompanying me. One of the best things he did for me was when my rhythm would get loose and wander he would get in my ear with a solid chop to get me back on track. It was a huge help.

    Have fun.

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    Default Re: Tips for accompanying a guitar?

    Adding a bit to my and Mark's comments above:

    In the mid-90s, before mandolin, retirement, and raging musicishness, I picked up a book named, quite simply, "Guitar Tricks" (no relation to the current website). It didn't need to be a full book w/ lots of examples (that, admittedly, did help at the time), but can be summarized as follows:
    For interesting variations, take any chord with open strings and find other fretted notes up the neck that are still part of that chord. The simplistic "octave G" form, that I noted above, could have also been 0-0-5-7, or 0-0-10-10, etc.

    Just to complete the logic (that's more obvious on guitar than mandolin), those up-the-neck notes usually take the formation of other known chords. A prime example is the guitar intro to Stephen Stills' "Love the One You're With". It starts with a top 3 strings "open A" formation at the 5th fret (x-0-0-7-7-5), sounding as D, alternating with an "open D" formation at the 7th fret (x-0-0-7-8-7), sounding as G. Fun stuff!
    [Okay, so the first time is really a quick Asus4 formation (x-0-0-7-8-5) rather than full D, but who's counting?]
    The grand finale is, very interestingly, played as a Gsus4 at the 7th fret (formed as Dsus4, x-0-0-7-8-8) resolving to D major at the 10th (x-0-0-11-10-10). Still fun stuff.

    If my fret counting seems a bit off, sorry but, it's the count that's in my head. I'll stop babbling now!
    Last edited by EdHanrahan; Oct-23-2022 at 12:31pm.
    - Ed

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    But by all those roads, my friend, we've travelled down
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    Registered User Ky Slim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tips for accompanying a guitar?

    Lot of great ideas here!
    A tip that has helped me a lot is recording myself playing with others. I just use the simple voice memos app on my phone and set the phone down somewhere near me but not in the way of a loudspeaker or monitor. The recordings are just for me and the folks I play with if they want to hear them. Listening to myself (and others) has been quite eye opening.
    One of the things that I have heard myself doing is moving around too much in the rhythm. As if I get bored and just have to try something else. Having heard this my rhythm playing has become more organized.
    Another tip is listen to Dawg's rhythm playing on his duet recordings. He kind of nails it...

  17. #10
    Registered User mbruno's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tips for accompanying a guitar?

    The best and most accurate answer will depend on a given situation / song / tune etc - but generally assuming just one guitar player (no bass etc), below are some thoughts:

    1. A chop or more percussive mandolin works well often on faster tunes
    2. Tremolo and cross picking works well often on slower tunes
    3. If the guitar is playing a riff, playing a steady chord based rhythm often is best (though not always)
    4. If the guitar is playing the rhythm chords, you can either play chords as well (usually in a different voicing) or add a few riffs
    5. Since there's no bass player, when the guitar player is taking a break, playing lower pitched chords is usually a good idea
    6. HARMONIZE WHENEVER YOU CAN!! Probably should be number 1 haha. Harmonies sound great given the tone differences (least IMO).

    BTW, I don't mean that Chops wouldn't work on slower tunes or that you can't tremolo over a fast progression - those totally can work - just trying to be very general with some broad strokes
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  18. #11
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    Default Re: Tips for accompanying a guitar?

    Lots of really good tips above. Just like to add one more. Record and listen to what you have done. What sounds good and what can be improved on. Yes, tape (or digital) can be cruel but it is a great teacher.

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