Vintage Gibson Playability

[penguins0141]

I have a Gibson A4 from around 1912 that I’ve had quite a bit done to it. 12% Ratio added to the fretboard, new golden age tuners, Cumberland bridge. It sounds sweet and like a typical mandolin of that genre. My question is, even with all the upgrades, will it ever be as playable as a newer Northfield, Gibson, Weber, Eastman?

[FLATROCK HILL]

'Playable' is all in what you're used to. The frets are probably smaller and the neck/nut-width is probably wider than some of the mandolins you mentioned but regardless... the more you play it, the more playable it will be.

[rcc56]

It all depends on personal preferences, and what fit your hands. What fits one person might not be comfortable to another.

I'm one of those folks who prefers old Gibsons with ample necks over most of the modern instruments I've played. I do find that a modern set of frets makes the old Gibsons much friendlier to me.

[musicofanatic]

I suspect that if you are used to an old A4, even with the modernizations you list, if you got your hands on a high-end Gibson or Northfield, you would swear someone had greased it

[Dan in NH]

I strongly suspect that I would prefer jumbo frets and a wide neck. I ALSO strongly suspect that I'll never be able to afford a wide neck Northfield Big Mon. So I play less expensive instruments, and more or less take what I get and like it.

[pops1]

I have the small frets in my '22, it plays great with low action. I like the smaller frets and most of my newer instruments play great. My old Gibson plays as easy as the new ones. Setup, setup setup.

[Jeff Mando]

...So I play less expensive instruments, and more or less take what I get and like it.

A great feeling instrument can make you want to practice more, but great music can be created on all types and quality of instruments.

I think of the old blues players with Stellas, Silvertones, and other catalog type instruments making great music. Using these instruments was based on affordability, not necessarily by choice.

[Dave Hanson]

I've got 1915 Gibson F4, it plays perfectly and sounds great.

Dave H

[CarlM]

A great feeling instrument can make you want to practice more, but great music can be created on all types and quality of instruments.

I think of the old blues players with Stellas, Silvertones, and other catalog type instruments making great music. Using these instruments was based on affordability, not necessarily by choice.

The ones that survived to make money and did not die of strychnine poisoning got better guitars when they could afford it.

I ALSO strongly suspect that I'll never be able to afford a wide neck Northfield Big Mon. So I play less expensive instruments, and more or less take what I get and like it.

A lot of times people can afford something better but spend their money elsewhere. I know one lady who has 16 or 18 instruments, mostly mandolins and guitars, none of them particularly nice. A local college guitar professor told her he was a professional and had two. She could have bought two or three real nice , professional grade instruments for what she had wrapped up in the cheap ones.

[William Smith]

Any instrument should be able to be set-up proper for it to sound the best it can! Trust me I started out as a very poor kid using not so good stuff but with fooling around, tweaking and learning for myself they all played and sounded pretty good. I've had high end stuff that stunk till it was set-up proper!

[Rob Roy]

If you had the fingerboard radiused and new frets installed, it should play like butter now. The only real advantages of a newer ($$$$) instrument would be a slimmer neck and better tuners.

But the newer mando will definitely not have that vintage sound or your old Gibson. Enjoy your old mandolin in it's second life you've given it.

[Greg Connor]

My Gibson A4 was made in 1917. The tone is the reason I play it. Nothing replaces the tone of an old Gibson. As for the neck, I have 7 mandolins, all with a different neck profile. That’s just part of the fun.

[UsuallyPickin]

Tone, playability, healthy structure, looks . . . that's what I watch for in any instrument. My technique, or lack thereof causes more disappointments than my instruments. I will admit to preferring post L.L. necks to the previous generations of widths though I still like a flat fingerboard. That is likely because it is what I am used to. Larger frets I can't say for sure about them as I have no instruments with them. I did play a Heiden that had larger frets and it was comfortable. But it was a Heiden owned and played by a pro. I would expect it to be comfortable. R/

[CES]

I got to spend some time at Carter’s Wednesday and played most of the mandolins they had excepting the Loars; they were busy, I’ve played a few, and didn’t want to bug them to pull them out when I knew I wasn’t buying. Anyway, one that stood out to me was the white face A-3 they have now. Classic Gibson tone without being too tubby on the bass and held up pretty well up the neck as well. The flat FB didn’t really bother me, which surprised me a little, but the mean, tiny, original frets did bug me. It is very well set up and thus very playable as is, but it required more work to fret cleanly, and a little more attention to precise fretting finger placement. I’m sure those of you who are used to those frets would give me some some deserved ribbing were you there to play it with me, but I’m playing a Kelly A-5 with taller EVO frets and a Rigel CT-110 with larger frets as well, so that’s what I’m used to. I considered buying that mando, but I’d want to replace the frets and maybe add a slight radius, so I left it hanging. If that’s what you’re into, though, it’s a very nice instrument priced more reasonably given the overspray on the back/sides/neck…

[William Smith]

I got to spend some time at Carter’s Wednesday and played most of the mandolins they had excepting the Loars; they were busy, I’ve played a few, and didn’t want to bug them to pull them out when I knew I wasn’t buying. Anyway, one that stood out to me was the white face A-3 they have now. Classic Gibson tone without being too tubby on the bass and held up pretty well up the neck as well. The flat FB didn’t really bother me, which surprised me a little, but the mean, tiny, original frets did bug me. It is very well set up and thus very playable as is, but it required more work to fret cleanly, and a little more attention to precise fretting finger placement. I’m sure those of you who are used to those frets would give me some some deserved ribbing were you there to play it with me, but I’m playing a Kelly A-5 with taller EVO frets and a Rigel CT-110 with larger frets as well, so that’s what I’m used to. I considered buying that mando, but I’d want to replace the frets and maybe add a slight radius, so I left it hanging. If that’s what you’re into, though, it’s a very nice instrument priced more reasonably given the overspray on the back/sides/neck…

Nice on the Amana-white top A-3. I looked at that one online but don't really remember what year, but I think it was a 22 with a TRod right? So those Loar years would be why that one isn't tubby as many from pre-20 that I've pawed at in person are too tubby for my personal preference! And I'd bet if I did bet, the neck would be a bit comfier than the earlier ones as well. I always wanted an A-3 white top but the last one I tried to get "after 25 some odd years-the guy robbed me of my $"! So, I got a bad taste in my mouth for a white top A-3 "for now anyways-LoL"! Oh well, I prayed for him to see the light. I guess getting robbed eventually happens when ya wheel and deal all the time! Some people are just, well evil!

[Dave Hicks]

1916 A0. The neck size doesn't bother me, but the small frets get on my nerves sometimes. But the sound is why I got it and kept it. (Maybe a refret would be an improvement, but I'm kind of a cheapskate.)

D.H.

[JEStanek]

Playability (to me) means set up. A great sounding or a poor sounding mandolin can, within certain structural limitations - eg., a warped neck, neck thickness and profile), be very playable. A comfortable action, properly adjusted bridge and nut, well maintained tuners are key for that. String height, different gauges of strings, string material type and pick material type and thickness, are a bit o expanded playability considerations.

As others mention, neck shape, for me, is an important thing. For my particular hand size, I like a thinner mor V shape. I didn't love the Weber or Breedlove shapes, thickness. However, neither caused me cramping or pain so I may adjust to them, right?

Jamie

[penguins0141]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Here's my baby. I love this thing.

[Jim Garber]

I am a big fan of standard vintage teens and twenties Gibson oval features: short neck, flat fretboard and small frets. My first Gibson was a 1919 white face A-3. My current for decades is my ‘23 A-2 snakehead. I also have three excellent modern mandolins love them for their feature as well.

[Tim Logan]

'Playable' is all in what you're used to. The frets are probably smaller and the neck/nut-width is probably wider than some of the mandolins you mentioned but regardless... the more you play it, the more playable it will be.

I would agree with Flatrock's assessment. My Lyon & Healy definitely feels different than my two more "modern" mandolins. It feels different because of the string spacing. For me, it just took time to get completely familiar with the L&H "sense of playability". In fact, even now, when I switch mandolins I need a day or so to get comfortable with the new "feel". So, to me, it's a question of spending enough time on any mandolin to feel "in the groove" with it. Just my neophyte's 2 cents :-).

[Rob Roy]

In 1980, I was working in a shop in the Kalamazoo area and was able to get a reject F4 top out of their bargain basement. Somebody had nicked the top with a bandsaw in the area that's under the tailpiece. So the top is now at least 40 years old. Not wanting bind another scroll, it went into a hybrid A model. I did stick with the fat, round neck as per a blueprint I had. I also had read a lot about older A's here and decided against the transverse brace and opted instead for a shallow X brace. It still has a tubby voice but not quite the "thunk" on the low notes of the originals. For the body I used flatsawn soft maple instead of birch.

Initially I went with the skinny frets which had a really nice tinkly tone, but it wasn't many years before I had some serious notches going. I refretted with EVO medium 0.080" bead which my other mandos have. Of course, EVO has since started producing gold in the old narrow gauge. The original varnish finish also was taking a beating from pinky planting and general wear, so I made the little fingerrest and over coated the finish with a catalyzed finish which has made it a quite loud mando. Peter Ostrusko was a real inspiration for me when I started this instrument.

[musicofanatic]

I think of the old blues players with Stellas, Silvertones, and other catalog type instruments making great music. Using these instruments was based on affordability, not necessarily by choice.

Whilst I dig early, rural blues for its primitive nature, it is not difficult to hear that guys like Yank Rachell are working with rough-playing, un-tunable, cheap, poorly set up instruments. For my ears, I find I can only listen to that kind of thing for so long. Would they sound "right" on an in-tune, smooth sounding modern instrument? Dunno...

[mandroid]

I'm fine with my 2 Gibson A's, from '22.



just the opportunity to play with others has gone away...

[William Smith]

Nice guys! Love the old Gibbys "when set up proper and not too tubby on the low end" I miss my late 24 A-4 with Virzi, it had the tone-voice I love in an old A as the Virzi seemed to tighten the top. Yes, Virzi fan here I fit a new full contact bridge as that was all it needed as the one it came with was fit terrible "top dented in where both sides of the feet were, saddle slots were sloppy, and it was leaning forward". Neck was great angle, frets fine as well as nut.

Who here has tried an aluminum saddle or bone inserts on the bass side or full bone saddle on their old A to brighten up the tubbiness, that is if they didn't like the tubbiness some of them have.

[tmsweeney]

I think enough folks have already said - if it sounds good - it is good.
I have an (1914?) A that I strung with light strings as it felt too delicate for mediums. So it is on the quiet side, but has a very Bird song like quality to it's tone, and is very easy to play. I put mediums on my 20 F4, and it does have a little of the "tubbiness" but it is also very easy to play (very wide neck and non adjustable bridge with great action) and to me sounds like it should.
I have brought it to a few jams and open mics and it holds its own just fine, I tend to leave it home these days as it feels like its getting a little frail (not bad for 102 years old).
Will those old Gibsons sound and play like a Sam Bush "Hoss" or a Grisman "Crusher" or a Reischman Loar? Probably not, but I keep them around cause they bring me joy.