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Thread: String Gauges for Neck Without Truss Rod

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    Default String Gauges for Neck Without Truss Rod

    Is there a general rule of thumb regarding how light a string gauge is okay to use on an instrument that does not have a truss rod? Is it just specific to each instrument? Or am I worrying too much over such a short, stout neck that's made to accommodate a variety of gauges without a truss rod?

    I purchased a starter mando (Savannah SA-120 "Louisville") for my 11-year old son, and I considered installing a lighter gauge set for him while he's learning, but I'm concerned that the decreased tension (is it that significant?) might lead to buzzing or even back bow. The neck meets the body at the 14th fret. I don't know its scale length at this time, though.

    For now, I'll use whatever gauge strings the instrument comes with, but does anyone know how, other than by trial and error, to determine a safe range of gauges?

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    Default Re: String Gauges for Neck Without Truss Rod

    As far as I'm aware, standard medium guage should be ok for this. One of my students has the same instrument with D'Addario J74s on it and it seems to be in fine shape. As far as buzzing with the light strings, what's the action on it? If it's on the higher side, it could be fine, and even desireable depending on how high.

  3. #3

    Default Re: String Gauges for Neck Without Truss Rod

    Thanks! I haven't received it, yet, but I plan to set it up myself. I will have to see what the action is like after it's settled in here. Also, thanks for the string recommendation!

    I plugged some string gauges into the McDonald string tension calculator (http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/stringxxiii.html), and the difference in total tension between the light and the medium gauge set (J73 and J74, respectively) is about 10.6 pounds.
    Depending on how stiff that carved maple neck is, that could be significant enough to notice a change in relief.

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    Default Re: String Gauges for Neck Without Truss Rod

    When you state "does not have a truss rod", do you mean no reinforcement of any kind added to the wooden neck, or do you mean no ADJUSTABLE truss rod? My experience is that most folks mean an instrument lacks an adjustable truss rod when they state "no truss rod". I doubt that most manufacturers would risk warranty returns by having no reinforcement (non-adjustable metal bar stock of some sort). That aside, you are largely correct to presume that the short length of a maple neck will show little effect with 10 lbs of change in tension.
    too many strings

  5. #5

    Default Re: String Gauges for Neck Without Truss Rod

    @musicofanatic ... yes, that is precisely what I mean; no rod made of steel with an adjustable tension, embedded within the neck.
    I've never heard of any other reinforcement method referred to as a "truss rod." Is that a thing?

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    Default Re: String Gauges for Neck Without Truss Rod

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedleytone View Post
    @musicofanatic ... yes, that is precisely what I mean; no rod made of steel with an adjustable tension, embedded within the neck.
    I've never heard of any other reinforcement method referred to as a "truss rod." Is that a thing?
    There are mandolins with a rod to prevent warping but are non-adjustable. Adjustable truss rods didn't come along until the 1920s but many earlier instruments had neck reinforcement (and beefier necks!) though there are probably many without.

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    Default Re: String Gauges for Neck Without Truss Rod

    Quote Originally Posted by Mainer73 View Post
    ... Adjustable truss rods didn't come along until the 1920s ...
    FWIW, traditionalist Martin Guitar resisted them until the '80s, I think, preceeded by T and rectangular steel shapes. I have two, '68 & '72, that don't suffer at all from non-adjustment.

    Besides:
    - Strings are cheap.
    - Backbow from too-light strings is easily fixed because, ya know, strings are cheap.
    - Forward bow from too-heavy strings is a whole 'nuther thing, maybe not easily corrected, and sometimes not avoided by an adjustable trussrod.

    Don't forget those 'teens & pre-Loar Gibson mandos with a triangle of heavier wood (walnut, ebony?) under the fingerboard that are STILL working real well.

    At the opposite end, some are clearly-marked w/ "steel reinforced neck" (my '63 Kay guitar is one), where a used hacksaw blade is inlaid -flat- under the fretboard. All that really allows is an honest claim of "steel", as any "reinforceing" is probably not happening.
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    Default Re: String Gauges for Neck Without Truss Rod

    Quote Originally Posted by EdHanrahan View Post
    FWIW, traditionalist Martin Guitar resisted them until the '80s, I think, preceeded by T and rectangular steel shapes. I have two, '68 & '72, that don't suffer at all from non-adjustment.

    Besides:
    - Strings are cheap.
    - Backbow from too-light strings is easily fixed because, ya know, strings are cheap.
    - Forward bow from too-heavy strings is a whole 'nuther thing, maybe not easily corrected, and sometimes not avoided by an adjustable trussrod.

    Don't forget those 'teens & pre-Loar Gibson mandos with a triangle of heavier wood (walnut, ebony?) under the fingerboard that are STILL working real well.

    At the opposite end, some are clearly-marked w/ "steel reinforced neck" (my '63 Kay guitar is one), where a used hacksaw blade is inlaid -flat- under the fretboard. All that really allows is an honest claim of "steel", as any "reinforceing" is probably not happening.
    I didn't know that about the Martins, thanks!

    Agreed, there are a lot of non-truss rod ie- "reinforced" necks out there working just fine.

    To the OP, I neglected to offer up the advice to consult the manufacturer as well, for piece of mind. According to their specs, it's light strings, BUT this may be just a default. They say it's solid woods and braced, which typically means medium guage is ok, but it can't hurt to inquire, especially if the neck is on the slimmer side. My understanding is that the fat mahogany necks of the old Gibson As made them resistant to bowing. Maple may behave differently.

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    Default Re: String Gauges for Neck Without Truss Rod

    I have had several of these in the shop and don't like putting heavy strings on them. You be the judge when you get it.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  10. #10

    Default Re: String Gauges for Neck Without Truss Rod

    I played a Fylde mandolin for many years before I sold it, no truss rod and no neck reinforcement, the neck was still perfectly straight when I sold it.

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    Default Re: String Gauges for Neck Without Truss Rod

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedleytone View Post
    @musicofanatic ... yes, that is precisely what I mean; no rod made of steel with an adjustable tension, embedded within the neck.
    I've never heard of any other reinforcement method referred to as a "truss rod." Is that a thing?
    Whether of not "truss rod" is a technically accurate term for a non-adjustable reinforcement built into a stringed instrument neck, it is a thing.
    too many strings

  12. #12

    Default Re: String Gauges for Neck Without Truss Rod

    The builder who made my F style calls it a "non-adjustable steel bar for stiffener" which seems apt.
    I guess I'll just stay right here, pick and sing a while...
    2022 Morris F5 #482, 1995 Flatiron 2MB, 2013 Don Kawalek flat top, 2004 Eastman 805

  13. #13

    Default Re: String Gauges for Neck Without Truss Rod

    I’d think it’s called a truss rod because it’s something that applies force at two, and only two points, where the second required element is really the neck itself. Think of an archery or violin bow, which amounts to the same idea. At least that’s how one is defined in architecture and engineering.
    A glued-in stiffening element, on the other hand, is not a truss because it connects at more than two points, possibly the whole length, so it’s a beam, or girder.
    The glued-in elements typically inside the instrument are called braces, which isn’t confusing at all, but I think they’re beams too.

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    Default Re: String Gauges for Neck Without Truss Rod

    strong opinion here: players should demand adjustable truss rod, at least for anything bigger than a mandola. If your neck develops a bow, you are done for. (start reading about compression refrets, wedged finger boards, truss rod retrofits and good luck finding a luthier to do it).

    I have a truss-rod-free japaneese mandocello and a friend has a truss-rod-free octave, the tone is nice, all is good, but as you tune them up to pitch you watch the neck bending and the strings turning into cheese graters.

    P.S. The octave is just about playable permanently down tuned to GDAE with capo in 2nd fret (12-string guitar trick), the mandocello is playable with a dwarf 3mm tall bridge (tone and volume loss 50%).

    P.S. mandolins with carbon fiber neck inserts are supposed to be okey, but if anything goes wrong, there is no truss rod to adjust for it.

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    Default Re: String Gauges for Neck Without Truss Rod

    Quote Originally Posted by mandocello8 View Post
    strong opinion here: players should demand adjustable truss rod, at least for anything bigger than a mandola. If your neck develops a bow, you are done for. (start reading about compression refrets, wedged finger boards, truss rod retrofits and good luck finding a luthier to do it).
    I have done compression refrets, but also simply loosening the fingerboard, putting a back bow into the neck and regluing the fingerboard will straighten the neck. Sometimes you may have to plane some wood, but I think many luthiers have done these kinds of repairs.

    I am pro adjustable truss rod.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Question Re: String Gauges for Neck Without Truss Rod

    10-36 rather than 11-40?

    1 pre truss Gibson & 1 with, both '22

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  18. #17

    Default Re: String Gauges for Neck Without Truss Rod

    I would suggest lights for a young beginner, but mediums or med#lights should be fine as far as the instrument goes. No heavies.

    Anyone with an older Martin needs to cultivate a long-term relationship with a fully qualified Martin repair specialist. When the action goes weird (every 5-10 years) they have tricks to improve the action. My guy cut me a new saddle last winter which is higher than the (custom made 30 years ago by his mentor) old one. Suggested I consider the old one my summer saddle and the new one is for winter. That’s worked great so far, it’s the only way I can adjust the action myself…
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