Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: 5ths tuned chord progression source?

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Guildford + Falmouth England
    Posts
    897

    Default 5ths tuned chord progression source?

    Does anyone know if there exists something like a 'chord progression bible' for closed (ie moveable) chords on fifths tuned instruments? I'm thinking of something that starts with I IV V I and goes through chord substitutions, ending with common more complex (jazz and swing?) progressions.

    I have Frank Geiger's 'Build any Chord' e-book and Niles Hokkanen's 'Guide to Mandolin Chords', and between them they look like a very good start in that direction. However I can imagine a book that leads you through learning to accompany with moveable chords in a range of music styles. Moveable chords means you don't need to show a huge number of open chord examples for different keys in any one progression.

    If that doesn't exist, is there a particularly good guitar or general instrument chord progression book that will take me through the progressions and substitutions, then I could work out my own 5ths tuned chord shapes as I go?

    Thanks, Max

  2. #2
    Registered User Ky Slim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    525

    Default Re: 5ths tuned chord progression source?

    I've never seen anything specific for fifths tuned instruments but I have seen things like this: This one is variations on blues and it came from page 35 of the Free Jamey Aebersold Jazz Handbook (It's free!!). I used to have a book of Dixieland progressions that was similar but in the key of C. It got away from me.

    It is probably better that this is not instrument specific IMO. Enjoy and Good Luck!

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screenshot (67).png 
Views:	110 
Size:	134.3 KB 
ID:	204042

  3. The following members say thank you to Ky Slim for this post:

    maxr 

  4. #3

    Default Re: 5ths tuned chord progression source?

    Just FYI, I built my own "books" of chords and scales using the following generator:

    https://www.studybass.com/tools/chor...-note-printer/

    I originally used it for the 6-course CGDAEB mandophone, but have different 3-ring binders for CGBDAEB, GDAE octave mandolin, CGDA mandola, and CGDAE cittern. I also have a specialized section in the CGDA book for chords using two- and three-note forms on the bottom courses for Freddie Green comping and Gypsy jazz pompe work. (I prefer having either a root or fifth at the bottom to establish tonality for chord-melody, which is why I have the section relying on those anchored chords.)

    In a given book for a given number of courses, I printed one page for a given chord type (Maj, min, Maj7, min7, dim7, min Maj7, and so on), with scale degrees and 24 frets shown. I then looked for clusters that could be easily barred, like 311341 or 331134 and therefore were moveable. (I don't mind thumb use when necessary or even helpful.)

    Once the chord forms are found, then I just used chord sources like Gypsy jazz chord grilles or fake books, and then started playing substitution upon substitution, until no man may say the actual chord. *laugh*

    In addition, using Tom principatos's excellent Open String Chords book, along with Mick Goodrick's amazing and inspirational The Advancing Guitarist, I found moveable chords what had common tones on open strings. Advancing Guitarist is actually agnostic on instrument and tuning, so it's worth exploring if you're looking for general mastery.

    Lastly, I highly recommend books from Rikky Rooksby like The Ongwriting Sourcebook: How to Turn Chords into Great Songs. That particular book has you start in one diatonic key, adding chords and experimenting with adding one chord at a time to the mix. Eventually you get into more, but you emerge with a thorough understanding of how to string chords together.

    (He has another book where he analyzed different chords which define styles, like how adding a chord from the flat 7 degree toughens up a rock song, but I can't remember its title off the top of my head.)

    Personally, I don't know of any shortcuts, but it's possible there's something out there. This post is just about my own path forward, especially for instruments with no materials (like the mandophone), or for translating materials from other instruments (like Gypsy Jazz and Green comping for mandola/tenor guitar).

    Whatever path you choose, good luck!

    Was this helpful to anyone?
    ----

    Playing a funky oval-hole scroll-body mandolin, several mandolins retuned to CGDA, three CGDA-tuned Flatiron mandolas, two Flatiron mandolas tuned as octave mandolins,and a six-course 25.5" scale CGDAEB-tuned Ovation Mandophone.

    Love mandola?
    Join the Mandola Social Group!

  5. The following members say thank you to Explorer for this post:

    maxr 

  6. #4
    Registered User Bruce Clausen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    1,474

    Default Re: 5ths tuned chord progression source?

    Every folk song, bluegrass tune, show tune, jazz tune, classical symphony, etc. has an underlying chord progression. Is there a particular style of music you're thinking of? In my experience, the way you learn chord progressions is by learning tunes. When you've played a few dozen tunes in a given style, your ear learns new ones almost instantly, and your fingers go to the right places on whatever instrument you use.

    For example, if you've listened to lots of jazz and worked through the tunes, you've probably heard and played all the blues variations in the Abersold chart posted by Ky Slim. But that wouldn't help you much with Mozart or Hank Williams.

  7. The following members say thank you to Bruce Clausen for this post:

    maxr 

  8. #5
    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    South of Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    4,415

    Default Re: 5ths tuned chord progression source?

    +1 on Bruce’s post. I think most of us have built our chord vocabularies by playing songs/tunes. I don’t really know of any shortcuts. Personally, I don’t find chord progressions that are divorced from tunes particularly helpful, YMMV.
    WWW.MARKGUNTER.NET
    Coming Soon: New site, The Amateur Mandolinist
    ----------------------------------
    "Life is short. Play hard." - AlanN

    ----------------------------------
    HEY! The Cafe has Social Groups, check 'em out. I'm in these groups:
    Newbies Social Group | The Song-A-Week Social
    The Woodshed Study Group | Blues Mando
    - Advice For Mandolin Beginners
    - YouTube Stuff

  9. The following members say thank you to Mark Gunter for this post:

    maxr 

  10. #6
    Registered User thesecretmandolinist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2022
    Location
    Somewhere beyond the deep blue sea
    Posts
    178

    Default Re: 5ths tuned chord progression source?

    If you are looking for more jazz based stuff I’d check Ted Greene’s books. They are for guitar but the progessions can be altered for mandolin. Also, 20th Century Harmony is good.
    Apitius Grand Classic
    D’Addario EJ74’s
    Madura Triangular Tortoiseshell 1mm

    Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/bearplaysmandolin

  11. The following members say thank you to thesecretmandolinist for this post:

    maxr 

  12. #7
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Forest Grove, Oregon
    Posts
    2,442

    Default Re: 5ths tuned chord progression source?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gunter View Post
    ..........Personally, I don’t find chord progressions that are divorced from tunes particularly helpful, YMMV.
    Sadly, I heartily agree. While learning chords on my 5 string, I spent a while playing the chord scales around the circle of fifths and got reasonable facility with recognizing and changing chords in each key, and not confusing them with the 4 course instrument. I went to a jam and......songs are not written that way.

    Learn in context.
    Not all the clams are at the beach

    Arrow Jazzbo
    Arrow G
    Clark 2 point
    Gibson F5L
    Ratliff CountryBoy A
    00-21 (voiced by Eldon Stutzman)

  13. The following members say thank you to Bill McCall for this post:

    maxr 

  14. #8
    Dave Berry
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    San Fancisco, CA USA
    Posts
    135

    Default Re: 5ths tuned chord progression source?

    You might want to check out the excellent book by Ted Eschliman Getting into Jazz Mandolin and the FFcP discipline discussed on this cafe thread. As a matter of fact, I think I should revisit that one to see what I have forgotten.
    Dave
    Gilchrist A3 #03539, Kimble A5 #122, Gibson A4 #65987
    https://linktr.ee/davidalanberry

  15. The following members say thank you to tuhker for this post:

    maxr 

  16. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Guildford + Falmouth England
    Posts
    897

    Default Re: 5ths tuned chord progression source?

    Thanks for all that - I'll have a look at all your recommendations and see what fits. Max

  17. The following members say thank you to maxr for this post:


  18. #10
    Registered User John Soper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Posts
    1,311

    Default Re: 5ths tuned chord progression source?

    When I was first getting into swing mandolin about 20+ years ago, I photocopied lead sheets for songs my guitar-playing friends were into (eg: "ALL of Me", "Out of Nowhere") and built chord progressions with largely 3-note chord charts. I forced myself to use voicings that would transition through a cadence with minimal finger movements (max 2 frets) between chords and used different positions for each 2nd A part of an AABA song format. I would slowly force myself to play these tunes over and over, so I could get the moves down in a jam situation. At that time, I really didn't internally understand half-diminished chord function or a ii7b5- Valt - i cadence in minor keys, but with help from Ted E's Getting into Jazz Mandolin, I built up a foundation of grips that have served me well over the years & allow me to take part in jams that cover both familiar & unfamiliar tunes. Don Stiernberg and Aaron Weinstein have lessons covering chord-melody mandolin - my "grips" were foundational in my ability to thunk my way through many tunes in this style. Highly recommended that you spend the time to plot out cadences for the style of music that you want to play.

  19. #11
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Forest Grove, Oregon
    Posts
    2,442

    Default Re: 5ths tuned chord progression source?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Soper View Post
    When I was first getting into swing mandolin about 20+ years ago, I photocopied lead sheets for songs my guitar-playing friends were into (eg: "ALL of Me", "Out of Nowhere") and built chord progressions with largely 3-note chord charts. I forced myself to use voicings that would transition through a cadence with minimal finger movements (max 2 frets) between chords and used different positions for each 2nd A part of an AABA song format. I would slowly force myself to play these tunes over and over, so I could get the moves down in a jam situation. At that time, I really didn't internally understand half-diminished chord function or a ii7b5- Valt - i cadence in minor keys, but with help from Ted E's Getting into Jazz Mandolin, I built up a foundation of grips that have served me well over the years & allow me to take part in jams that cover both familiar & unfamiliar tunes. Don Stiernberg and Aaron Weinstein have lessons covering chord-melody mandolin - my "grips" were foundational in my ability to thunk my way through many tunes in this style. Highly recommended that you spend the time to plot out cadences for the style of music that you want to play.
    I’m sorting out those minor cadences right now, and this is great advice. Several ways to play them, but the one that you can handle in real time in a jam is invaluable.
    Not all the clams are at the beach

    Arrow Jazzbo
    Arrow G
    Clark 2 point
    Gibson F5L
    Ratliff CountryBoy A
    00-21 (voiced by Eldon Stutzman)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •