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Thread: Fretted notes on E strings out of tune even though open string is

  1. #1

    Question Fretted notes on E strings out of tune even though open string is

    Hi,

    I was having an issue where either the open note on the E-strings is in tune or the fretted notes are in tune but never both.

    I was wondering if I should get a new pair of strings or if this was an issue with bridge placement or something of that sort.

    Any assistance is appreciated!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Fretted notes on E strings out of tune even though open strin

    You should definitely check the intonation. You can do this by comparing the 12th fret harmonic to a fretted note on the 12th fret. Do this for all 4 courses. If the harmonic and the fretted note are different, you will have to change the bridge placement.

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  4. #3
    Registered User Tom Wright's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fretted notes on E strings out of tune even though open strin

    If only slightly disagreeing, old strings is the likely culprit, especially if this a new issue.
    If not new, and if present from the first fret onward, look carefully with a side view to check if the string height is identical at the nut.
    If it becomes more apparent in the higher frets it might be the first possibility. I find I need to swap my E strings after a couple of weeks, the oiter becoming the inner, to restore good unisons in the highest frets.

    If strings are not old, unequal bridge slot heights can be a problem, but only in the higher frets, and would likely have been the case from the start.
    Basically, more info needed.
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  5. #4

    Default Re: Fretted notes on E strings out of tune even though open strin

    Thanks for your reply! I'm sorry I should have mentioned this in the post- I don't have much experience with the mandolin or music terminology, so I couldn't quite follow what you're trying to convey.

  6. #5

    Default Re: Fretted notes on E strings out of tune even though open strin

    If you haven’t already, email Rob Meldrum for a copy of his free e-book on mandolin set-up, and look at the section on “intonation”.

  7. #6

    Default Re: Fretted notes on E strings out of tune even though open strin

    Quote Originally Posted by Chessmaster7 View Post
    Thanks for your reply! I'm sorry I should have mentioned this in the post- I don't have much experience with the mandolin or music terminology, so I couldn't quite follow what you're trying to convey.
    Harmonics are when you lightly touch the string over a fret. So to play a 12th fret harmonic, you would pick the string while lightly touching it over the 12th fret, then pulling the fretting finger away. It should make a bell-like sound.

    Now play a note by fretting the same string on the 12th fret. If the pitch sounds the same between the harmonic and the fretted note, your intonation is good and you have a different problem. If the pitch is different, you have an intonation issue and will likely need to move the bridge.

    The other causes brought up are definitely a possibility, but this is any easy enough thing to test first without having to change anything on the instrument.

  8. #7
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    Default Re: Fretted notes on E strings out of tune even though open strin

    Does this persist up the neck? It could be the nut slots are not filed so each string exits the nut at the very end of the nut. If you lift your strings you may see a shinny spot where the string rests on the nut. Make sure both go all the way to the fret side of the nut with the fret side the highest and the slot angling back toward the headstock.
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  9. #8

    Default Re: Fretted notes on E strings out of tune even though open strin

    Thank you for your advice Tom! It's a definitely new issue, I haven't faced this before and the strings are a couple of months old. Also, there was a period of a month or so when I had forgotten to slacken the strings and left the instrument unattended.

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    Default Re: Fretted notes on E strings out of tune even though open strin

    I wouldn't worry about slacking the strings for a month or so, it shouldn't be a problem.
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  11. #10
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    Default Re: Fretted notes on E strings out of tune even though open strin

    I just saw this effect twice. 1st case, false strings (do not oscillate correctly because of non-uniform density/thickness and/or non-uniform flexibility). strings go false with age because metal properties. solution - replace strings. (but beware, I once had a brand new false string in new strings package). 2nd case, bad nut, the string was obviously vibrating off the middle of the nut instead of off the leading edge. solution - recut/repair/replace the nut (best if a luthier does this).

  12. #11

    Default Re: Fretted notes on E strings out of tune even though open strin

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    Does this persist up the neck? It could be the nut slots are not filed so each string exits the nut at the very end of the nut. If you lift your strings you may see a shinny spot where the string rests on the nut. Make sure both go all the way to the fret side of the nut with the fret side the highest and the slot angling back toward the headstock.
    Looks like the channels on the nut seem to be even and angle towards the headstock.

  13. #12

    Default Re: Fretted notes on E strings out of tune even though open strin

    Quote Originally Posted by milli857 View Post
    Harmonics are when you lightly touch the string over a fret. So to play a 12th fret harmonic, you would pick the string while lightly touching it over the 12th fret, then pulling the fretting finger away. It should make a bell-like sound.

    Now play a note by fretting the same string on the 12th fret. If the pitch sounds the same between the harmonic and the fretted note, your intonation is good and you have a different problem. If the pitch is different, you have an intonation issue and will likely need to move the bridge.

    The other causes brought up are definitely a possibility, but this is any easy enough thing to test first without having to change anything on the instrument.
    Just tried this out. Looks like the intonation is fine. Thanks for the explanation!

  14. #13

    Default Re: Fretted notes on E strings out of tune even though open strin

    Quote Originally Posted by mandocello8 View Post
    I just saw this effect twice. 1st case, false strings (do not oscillate correctly because of non-uniform density/thickness and/or non-uniform flexibility). strings go false with age because metal properties. solution - replace strings. (but beware, I once had a brand new false string in new strings package). 2nd case, bad nut, the string was obviously vibrating off the middle of the nut instead of off the leading edge. solution - recut/repair/replace the nut (best if a luthier does this).
    Thanks! I'll try fitting a new set of strings and see if that fixes the issue.

  15. #14

    Default Re: Fretted notes on E strings out of tune even though open strin

    Quote Originally Posted by NDO View Post
    If you haven’t already, email Rob Meldrum for a copy of his free e-book on mandolin set-up, and look at the section on “intonation”.
    Thanks, I'll grab a copy!

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