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Thread: Embergher or De Santis ?

  1. #26
    Registered User Alex Timmerman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Embergher or De Santis ?

    Hello Quartino, Yes, the one without the raised fingerboard is, I think, the earliest one of all the posted ones here.

  2. #27

    Default Re: Embergher or De Santis ?

    Hello Alex,
    Here, I am not sure to follow you.
    We have :
    -signed Eulry (V&A) with raised fingerboard and violin-type neck joint, probably anterior to Eulry's death (1835?)
    -Eugene's and mine, both anonymous, which are almost identical and bear similar features to Eulry's: ivory buttons at the tail and on the head sides, the end of the fingerboard follows the round curve of the hole, similar decorations around the sides of the back.
    and then two very different ones:
    -[post #22] anonymous without raised fingerboard, with Neapolitan-style neck joint
    -[post #23] signed JTL with raised fingerboard, also Neapolitan-style neck joint, with metal tailpiece and mechanic tuners, so certainly late 19th century
    Both these ones share similarities : no ivory buttons, identical look of the ribs and no decorations on the wooden parts around them, similar finish, shape of the head, a large bridge (which seems original on both).
    The similarity of #22 with #23, a JTL which is certainly the most recent of all, leads me to think that #22, despite its absence of raised fingerboard, is not so old...
    Then, my "impressionistic" feeling on all of them is that Eugene's and mine have an older-looking aspect than the two with Neapolitan neck joint.
    As for raised fingerboard, note that ebony fingerboard extending to the hole was already in use in taly in the 1807 and 1821 mandolins shown in post #19 here...

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  4. #28
    Registered User Alex Timmerman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Embergher or De Santis ?

    Hello Quartini et all,

    Thank you for the good observation and summary.

    The confusion with regard to the ornaments that might refer to an early period, is quite understandable. I would also have liked these little ivory/bone ornaments and side-strip carving on mine...

    And yes, of course there already existed the Italian examples with some kind of raised fingerboard around the turn of that century and some what later. But only incidently and probably not in France...

    As far as my research brought me, I believe that the French style Mandolines by the Eulry firm can be dated by taking in account what is known of the Eurly family. First of all the year of death of Clément Eurly seems to have been 1865. The year of birth is not completely clear but most information points to that this took place somewhere around the year 1820. After his childhood Eulry learned making musical instruments in Paris, where he also specialized himself in the making of bows. After this "apprentice" period it seems that he settled in Mirecourt where he established the Eulry musical instrument firm some time soon after 1840. The oldest Mandolin examples were likely made there and under the workshop guidance of Eurly senior. After his retirement the firm continued to exist under the leadership of Eurly's son.

    We can leave aside the instruments by the Jerome Thibouvill-Lamy company because that firm was founded in 1861. Since both firms were based in Mirecourt and presumably led by people well aware of each other's competing activities, it seems to me that it is quite possible that the JTL company took over certain instrument manufacturing rights after the Eulry firm was closed around 1860. As a result, the striking and well-known Eulry Mandolin design came into the hands of the Thibouville-lamy company, and the Mandolins with the Eulry appearance were provided with the well-known round JTL label.

    But then again; more research needs to be done! :-)

    Best greetings,
    Alex.

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