Notes from the Condino vault

[j. condino]

I've got a huge amount of notes & blueprints that I have made over the last four+ decades of building instruments, in addition to several commercially available blueprints. I've been looking into the idea of publishing a modified "Cliff Notes" releasing the more important aspects of those. With all of the current other things I have in production and awaiting editorial review, I may never get to them, so.....

In the spirit of mandolin nerdiness, if it is OK, for the 2023 calendar year I'll release one of the standouts every month here in this thread.

There are a couple of current snakehead discussions, so as an early Christmas present, lets start with the one and only snakehead mandola and get the headstock dimensions spot on:

[j. condino]

One more comical photo to add: I'm pretty sure this was the first time the truss rod cover was removed to reveal a century of nasty funk!

[Jim Garber]

One more comical photo to add: I'm pretty sure this was the first time the truss rod cover was removed to reveal a century of nasty funk!

Back in those times the players used their truss rod sockets as spittoons, methinks.

Do you have any full shots, front and back of this instrument? Was it ever in the MC archives? I don't see it here.

I look forward to your future posts on this thread.

[j. condino]

As a builder, I often make new instruments in a sequence, with the final outcome being the end goal of several smaller steps. I believe this instrument was #2 in a sequence for Lloyd Loar.

If we look around in the historic record, there are three other instruments that I think were part of his personal trajectory, none specifically aligning with corporate orders from the factory:

-#1 is a well known image of him and Mrs. F. playing a standard paddle head mandola but modified with a larger ten string, five course neck.

-#2 was the Griffith Loar, a one of A5 configuration with a "snakehead" headstock. This is probably my all time favorite mandolin that I have played; definitely one of the top 5 Loar signed mandolins around. My enthusiasm is equal parts the voice (tremendous!) and the simplicity of design to execute that. I had built one oval hole mandolin and a few months later was able to spend an afternoon with the Griffith and it changed everything to me. To be able to get that much sonority & power without all of the excess work involved in an F5 was a pretty obvious choice in my mandolin world.

-After the Griffith A5, I think this oval hole mandola was next in his sequence- a larger oval hole mandola that worked through the snakehead aspect. This one may have been in the works concurrently, but as soon as he strung up the Griffith, the next step was obvious, so we never really saw any photos of it.

-Once finished, it culminated with Loar building his personal A5 ten string mandola.

Lloyd Loar uunicorns and ffairy ttales abound, so there is no way of cracking the truth. From looking at all of these instruments for decades as a player first and then a craftsman, and handling / playing two of them in person, this is the conclusion I can come to. I try not to pay much attention to serial numbers and factory order#s, so can anyone who has them at least confirm a chronological order? Even though that didn't always mean much at the factory....

[j. condino]

....Do you have any full shots, front and back of this instrument? .....

Yes- literally hundreds of them, and full hacklinger maps....

All of my students and many of the folks that come by for a visit who are nice get access to them.


One other thing Jim- notice the brown buttons again. They consistently seem to be found on the better sounding instruments from this era; brown mojo! As well, one particular method of carving and arching is slightly different from the rest of the crowd, like there was a craftsman at the factory who was so much more skilled that they let him just do his thing. 'More crisp carving lines, and the button was different, et cetera....

[Ben Vierra]

Very generous of you to share. Thanks!

[Skip Kelley]

That’s so cool James. Thanks for sharing.

[MikeEdgerton]

...Do you have any full shots, front and back of this instrument?...

In this thread there are pictures. There is also at least one Youtube video of it.

[Jonathan Ward]

Great idea, James. Very helpful. Thank you for opening The Vault.

[Jim Garber]

I thought it sounded vaguely familiar. Too bad the video link doesn’t work any more. It was on Vimeo. I wonder if it can be watched elsewhere?

[journeybear]

Here is the link to the vimeo from the 2015 thread. Still works. And it is tuned like a mandola, if anyone doubted. https://vimeo.com/144142155

[MikeEdgerton]

I thought it sounded vaguely familiar. Too bad the video link doesn’t work any more. It was on Vimeo. I wonder if it can be watched elsewhere?

[journeybear]

Aha! Oho! A different video, and three times as long. Sweet!

I found in the 2015 thread that in Post#103 mrmando embedded the vimeo. Transposing it here:

[journeybear]

And in Post #114, three more vimeo clips, from blidgood himself:

[oldwave maker]

Where do I sign up for the suitable for framing blueprint? It was Elderly's 1983 Scott Antes A-2 blueprint that started many of us down this long dusty road decades ago, thanks for throwing more fuel on the fire, James!!!

[Bob Schmidt]

James,
Thanks for opening the vault. I am sure there is a wealth of knowledge there.

[John Bertotti]

You write that book and I’m in! I’ll buy it in a heartbeat!

[Jim Garber]

Aha! Oho! A different video, and three times as long. Sweet!

I found in the 2015 thread that in Post#103 mrmando embedded the vimeo. Transposing it here:

And in Post #114, three more vimeo clips, from blidgood himself:

thanks, JB. In order to get the code I had to “reply”to each post and cut and paste the links. For some reason it doesn’t show up for me.

[j. condino]

'Seems like the perfect place to repost this from the 2015 thread:

"Without question, there will be skeptics, there will be claims made, there will be people calling me a fool again and saying that I am no vintage Gibson mandola expert (who really is??? Better yet, who really wants that title???), and my favorite, " That's a whole lotta nuthin' ..." (...from some punk who paints mandolinz green...). In the end, does any of it really matter? What really matters is if it is a great instrument. Does it captivate you, does it move and inspire your music, does it make your heart weep and excite you and stay up late at night lusting after expressions of sound that once only existed in your mind and now you can somehow express that to others????? Is life better with this instrument in your hands?"


j.

[pheffernan]

There are a couple of current snakehead discussions, so as an early Christmas present, lets start with the one and only snakehead mandola and get the headstock dimensions spot on:

Has anyone built a “tribute” instrument to this mandola?

[j. condino]

Has anyone built a “tribute” instrument to this mandola?

If only you knew someone who had detailed specs on it...

Git out yer' checkbook and "someone" will.

[BradKlein]

As a builder, I often make new instruments in a sequence, with the final outcome being the end goal of several smaller steps. I believe this instrument was #2 in a sequence for Lloyd Loar.

If we look around in the historic record, there are three other instruments that I think were part of his personal trajectory, none specifically aligning with corporate orders from the factory: ...

Do you have a take on how the Tenor Lute fit into this sequence? Seems as if it might fit somewhere in this chain of instrument development.

[Jim Garber]

If only you knew someone who had detailed specs on it...

Git out yer' checkbook and "someone" will.

Hmmm... I do need a mandola twin to my mandolin...

[pheffernan]

If only you knew someone who had detailed specs on it...

Git out yer' checkbook and "someone" will.

What’s the number on that check?

Hmmm... I do need a mandola twin to my mandolin...

Maybe they’re cheaper in batches!

[Jim Garber]

As a builder, I often make new instruments in a sequence, with the final outcome being the end goal of several smaller steps. I believe this instrument was #2 in a sequence for Lloyd Loar.

If we look around in the historic record, there are three other instruments that I think were part of his personal trajectory, none specifically aligning with corporate orders from the factory:

-#1 is a well known image of him and Mrs. F. playing a standard paddle head mandola but modified with a larger ten string, five course neck.

-#2 was the Griffith Loar, a one of A5 configuration with a "snakehead" headstock. This is probably my all time favorite mandolin that I have played; definitely one of the top 5 Loar signed mandolins around. My enthusiasm is equal parts the voice (tremendous!) and the simplicity of design to execute that. I had built one oval hole mandolin and a few months later was able to spend an afternoon with the Griffith and it changed everything to me. To be able to get that much sonority & power without all of the excess work involved in an F5 was a pretty obvious choice in my mandolin world.

-After the Griffith A5, I think this oval hole mandola was next in his sequence- a larger oval hole mandola that worked through the snakehead aspect. This one may have been in the works concurrently, but as soon as he strung up the Griffith, the next step was obvious, so we never really saw any photos of it.

-Once finished, it culminated with Loar building his personal A5 ten string mandola.

Lloyd Loar uunicorns and ffairy ttales abound, so there is no way of cracking the truth. From looking at all of these instruments for decades as a player first and then a craftsman, and handling / playing two of them in person, this is the conclusion I can come to. I try not to pay much attention to serial numbers and factory order#s, so can anyone who has them at least confirm a chronological order? Even though that didn't always mean much at the factory....

I have one more question: which of these Loar owned/played instruments had Virzis? Also, did the snakehead H-2 mandola (Centaur) have a Virzi. Just curious... my A-4 has the coffee-colored knobs and a Virzi.