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Thread: Loarfest for January 2023

  1. #1
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Loarfest for January 2023

    I've seen ads for Banjothon 2023 happenin' in Knoxville, TN next month on the 13th.

    Is it going to be the same format as the last few where Banjothon, Bonefest, and Loarfest are all going ontogether?

    A little treat from the last one:
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  3. #2
    Teacher, repair person
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    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    It would be great if someone could design a scanner that would map the graduations and tone bar dimensions of each one of those mandolins, store them, and dump them to a disk so we could have the blueprints.
    I suppose we're now to the point that we have the technology do it, but someone would have to come up with the cash, time, and knowledge to build the machine.

    I'd be interested to see just how much the specs differ from instrument to instrument, and whether it has a consistent influence on tone and projection.

    I once did a study of the influence of weight on a number of vintage guitars and mandolins. The tools were simple-- a digital scale and my ears. Many of the instruments were built of similar materials and had the same footprints.

    The results were not at all what I expected. While weight appeared to have some influence on tone, the results were not at all consistent. This leads me to believe that other factors have as much or more influence on tone than weight does.

    Question: Has anyone here ever played a signed F-5 or a pearl trimmed Martin guitar that wasn't any good?

    Just to keep us honest, I'll mention that I've played a 1945 D-28 that wasn't any better than an average 1960's model.
    And the most powerful Loar I've played had a Virzi, surprisingly enough. It was also pretty beat up.

    While I'm aware of Banjothon, this is the first I've heard of Bonefest.
    Somehow, the term "Bonefest" sounds a bit perverse to me , although I imagine some folks might like it.
    If it were up to me, I might want to come up with a different name . . .
    Last edited by rcc56; Dec-11-2022 at 11:37pm.

  4. #3

    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    I once did a study of the influence of weight on a number of vintage guitars and mandolins. The tools were simple-- a digital scale and my ears. Many of the instruments were built of similar materials and had the same footprints.

    The results were not at all what I expected. While weight appeared to have some influence on tone, the results were not at all consistent. This leads me to believe that other factors have as much or more influence on tone than weight does.
    In this interview with Don MacRostie, he states:

    "At an ASIA Symposium I met an engineering student from Rensselaer Polytech who was using laser interferometry to study solid body instrument motion. I asked him if he would measure an F mandolin for me. I was surprised at the movement I saw on so many parts that I hadn’t associated with tone before. I saw things like the finger board extension and scroll on the peg head move much more than I expected. You’d expect that a lot of that is dead but, if it’s moving, it’s feeding back into the instru- ment and probably influencing tone. In one case I had a customer who wanted to play the violin repertoire on his mando- lin so we cut off the fret board at the 21st fret and put on a removable (snap-on) extension to 36 frets. The instrument sounded incredibly different with that extension on and off. That just confirmed what I saw on the interferometry analysis that the extended fingerboard is coloring the tone.."

    So I think Don would agree that many more variables than weight, graduations, and tone bars placement affects sound.

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    It would be great if someone could design a scanner that would map the graduations and tone bar dimensions of each one of those mandolins, store them, and dump them to a disk so we could have the blueprints.
    I suppose we're now to the point that we have the technology do it, but someone would have to come up with the cash, time, and knowledge to build the machine.
    I agree, this would be very neat, but the above suggests we'd probably need much more than just graduations and tone bar dimensions measured.

    Perhaps we can find a Loar owner who would be willing to donate a small sum to fund those folks at Rensselaer Polytech to conduct this research :-)

  5. #4
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    Yes, that fingerboard extension again....If you think the mandolin interferometry motion is complicated, on big double basses it is geometrically more intense; so much that coming up with a unified theory of bridge motion seems like too much at this point in our technical infancy.

    If you attend the week long acoustic physics workshop during the summer series at Oberlin College, that is what they do for most of the week. I've been there and at times the amount of information that was presented was overwhelming. There is a well known mandolin builder who has been going there for years and has a ton of Loar maps. At one point there was suppose to be a commercial offering of the results, but I don't know what happened to that project.

    My personal takeaway was that the scientific analysis of raw tonewoods in terms of mass, density, speed of sound, radiation ratios, & such was very useful while the hyper tech finished instrument analysis was more of a distraction than I need.

    Loarfest usually has none of that- "Whole lotta'nuthin' !" They are quite happily entrenched in 100 years ago, but #@!$ there are a lot of cool old instruments and an equal amount of very nice people talkin' fretwire & spruce & varnish & Lloar uunicorns & ffairy dust and a lot of my heroes came over from Nashville to be just as nerdy about it.
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    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    It would be great if someone could design a scanner that would map the graduations and tone bar dimensions of each one of those mandolins, store them, and dump them to a disk so we could have the blueprints.
    I suppose we're now to the point that we have the technology do it, but someone would have to come up with the cash, time, and knowledge to build the machine.
    It's called CT scanner and any nearby hospital has it. Even better would be micro -CT scanner but those are not so common.

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    I'd be interested to see just how much the specs differ from instrument to instrument, and whether it has a consistent influence on tone and projection.
    Loars from same batch were generally very consistent physically. DIfference between early and late Loars can be larger but still not huge. They were made in factory with fixtures and specs tables for most operations.
    Adrian

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  8. #6

    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    So, is there to be a Loarfest in Knoxville next month?

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    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    As concerns the question posted above: "Has anyone here ever played a signed F-5... that wasn't any good?" Most claims of that nature I have heard are from folks that do not own one.

    Even though I throw my own Loarfest every day, it would be a lot less lonesome to do it with more than just this one, along with a bunch of other folks with which to geek out over them...but I am otherwise engaged on that weekend. Maybe next year...
    too many strings

  10. #8
    Registered User Glassweb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by musicofanatic View Post
    As concerns the question posted above: "Has anyone here ever played a signed F-5... that wasn't any good?" Most claims of that nature I have heard are from folks that do not own one.

    Even though I throw my own Loarfest every day, it would be a lot less lonesome to do it with more than just this one, along with a bunch of other folks with which to geek out over them...but I am otherwise engaged on that weekend. Maybe next year...
    Yes my friend... I once played a Loar F5 (Feb. 18th with a Virzi) that I thought was a complete dud. And I have played over 100 Loar F5s and owned 8 or so over the years.

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    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    I got reservations yesterday, according to Crown Plaza they are having the Banjothon on the 13th. Should be great as usual. Larry started a tradition I hope we can keep up.

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  13. #10

    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    I've been asked by the organizers to lead a grief counseling workshop for Loar owners at this year's gathering. It's no secret prices of Loar mandolins plummeted in the past few years beyond what was ever thought possible. Most owners will never have a chance to recover their financial losses and as a result, are suffering in silence. I will be there to put a perspective on what has happened. There's simply no reason to suffer in silence. As a community we can support each other and learn not to necessarily accept the loss, but how to live with it long term. I look forward to meeting many of you there.

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    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by Glassweb View Post
    Yes my friend... I once played a Loar F5 (Feb. 18th with a Virzi) that I thought was a complete dud. And I have played over 100 Loar F5s and owned 8 or so over the years.
    I have played a few and only have the one...glad I did not get the 2/18 Virzi dud...
    too many strings

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    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    I've got 5 and probably couldn't get my money back on 3 of them. Maybe I should have bought Bitcoin, nah I'll keep my mandolins. I think the grief would be not owning any.

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  17. #13
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    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by eightmoremiles View Post
    So, is there to be a Loarfest in Knoxville next month?
    Yes, it has been confirmed by the big Loar nerds directly to me. I even blocked out my gig calendar for that day!
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    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    ive only been to one in knoxville, but its a great event..ill be there with my lowly fern and a herring bone....its a fantastic event

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    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    Hey Mark,

    Wish I was out that way to attend, it would be good to see ya. I'd lay this new Gil out if I could.

    "Lowly Fern" I hardly think so.

    Take care man

  20. #16
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    'Excited to drive down over the hill to Loarfest in the morning!
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    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    I'd be there but too much going on as I just lost my Ma to a long sickness, majorly bummed out.

  22. #18

    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by William Smith View Post
    I'd be there but too much going on as I just lost my Ma to a long sickness, majorly bummed out.
    Sorry to hear about your Mom. May she rest in peace.
    "I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb

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    Registered User Brad Grafton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    Does it go on till Sunday? Would love to come up.
    It's not an addiction... It's an investment.
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  25. #20
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    One table of many!!!
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    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    It was a great get together. Hundreds of banjos, I think there was about 40 Loars as well as many Ferns. Thanks to Mike Johnson, I think he was in charge. Larry Mathis was there, he's the originator of this event. Lots of great folks in the mandolin section, Lee Sizemore was there with Hershels mandolins, WOW is an understatement. I took 3 of mine as well as Dempsey Youngs Hutto-Gibson, it always gets a lot of attention. Thanks to Mike, Jordan, Tom, Scott and all that helped to keep a good thing going.

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    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    This recent post has 2500+ views, so apparently there is huge Cafe' member interest in Loarfest, but minimal input from attendees... I had considered going but did not understand what this gathering is all about... ? Is it a display of 1920s Gibson mandolin family instruments, banjos, and herringbone D-28s? Can someone explain the purpose of this event? How many people attend? Is this a buy / sell / trade gathering? My impression is folks with vintage instruments gather to display them, compare them, and learn about them? Lots of questions... I will stop now.

  30. #23

    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    Did they display any of the Loars from the Shaw collection there? The ones from Belmont University?
    "your posts ... very VERY opinionated ...basing your opinion/recommendations ... pot calling ...kettle... black...sarcasm...comment ...unwarranted...unnecessary...."

  31. #24

    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by tryingtopick View Post
    My impression is folks with vintage instruments gather to display them, compare them, and learn about them?
    Seems like your impression covers it pretty well.
    "I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb

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    Default Re: Loarfest for January 2023

    I think if it was advertise much it might get out of hand. The room was basically full. It's more of a show with some bragging rights attached. There were some banjos priced. Just a good get together to see some old friends and drool of a bunch of fine instruments.

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