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Thread: Chords and Music Theory

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    Default Chords and Music Theory

    I am an untrained newbie exploring music. My daughter, the music teacher, has been helping me, so now I am dangerous.

    She told me a chord is made of a root or 1st, a third, and the fifth. Then she explained on the piano that means every other white key.

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    I was looking at the fingering for some basic chords and got confused on the D chord. Seems to me the F# in the D major chord would make it a minor chord. The F in the D minor chord would make it a major. The E minor I think should be an E major. I hope the chart helps explain what I am nattering about.
    Last edited by neilca; Dec-14-2022 at 7:18pm. Reason: Added more info

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    Default Re: Chords and Music Theory

    referring to the charts

    the the first one D with 2002 is just notes out of order ADAF#

    the second one 2001 is a Dm , notes are out of order ADAF ( F is F# flattened or lowered one half step)

    the 3rd one 0220 is an Em but the notes are out of order GEBE
    EGB is Em
    E G#B is E Major.


    White and black keys do not really translate to a multi string fretboard.
    1-3-5 is about intervals that create harmony when played simultaneously.

    a chord without any significant description, D for example, implies a major chord that follows 1-3-5 of the major scale starting on D.

    D F#A
    D to F# is 2 whole steps D-E and E-F#
    F# to A is 1/2 and 1 whole step
    F# G 1/2 step G -A is 1 whole step.
    The interval for a major triad is Root W W Third H W Fifth

    a D minor is notated by a small m next to the root of the chord 1, flat 3, 5
    Dm is D F A ( relative major being Bb)
    the interval is Root whole half Third
    Third whole step whole step Fifth
    D- E 1 whole step, E -F 1 half step, F-G 1 whole step G-A 1 whole step.

    on a fretted instrument going from one fret to the adjacent fret (either up or down) is a half step
    skipping one fret either up or down is a whole step

    on mandolin open strings are the same as the 7th fret on the lower toned string .

    there are probably way better explanations out there, while you don't need to memorize the whole steps versus half steps ( at least not in the beginning)
    you should know the difference between a major and a minor chord

    a minor chord is the same as a major chord but the 3rd is always flat one half step.

    for most folk music knowing major minor and a few 7th chords in popular keys (CGDA) should be plenty to get you started.
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    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chords and Music Theory

    You've got it backwards. The third of any chord determines if it's major or minor. Remember that in the D major scale there are two sharps. This is the scale:

    D E F# G A B C#

    The root is D. The third is F#. The fifth is A. So a D major triad I is D, F# and A. If you flat the third to F natural, now it becomes a D minor.

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    Default Re: Chords and Music Theory

    Your misunderstanding is in regards to the piano keys. The first, third and fifth are not every other white key. The first, third and fifth should be the first, third and fifth notes of whatever major scale corresponds to the chord.

    For a C chord then it is every other white key because the key of C has no sharps or flats. It would be C, E and G. The white keys on the piano are the letter notes without any sharp or flat.

    A G major scale has one sharp on the F note. So for a G chord the notes 1,3 and 5 of the G scale are G, B and D. These are again all white keys in the chord but not in the scale.

    A D major scale has two sharps on the F and C notes. So for a D chord the notes 1, 3 and 5 of the D scale are D, F# and A. This and the next two chords include some black keys.
    An A major scale has 3 sharps on the F, C and G notes. So for an A chord the notes 1, 3 and 5 of the A scale are A, C# and E.
    An E major scale has 4 sharps on the F, C, G and D notes. So for an E chord the notes 1, 3 and 5 of the E scale are E, G# and B.

    A similar procedure applies to all of the other keys depending on how many sharps or flats they have.

    The shortcut way to find the minor chord is to flatten the third on each of these so Cm becomes C, Eb and G; Gm is G, Bb and D; Dm is D, F and A; Am is A, C and E; Em is E, G, and B,

    The more technical way to find the minor chord is to take the 1, 3 and 5 of the appropriate minor scale. That requires knowing what notes are sharped or flatted in each minor scale just like for the major scale.

    Hopefully this is helpful and not beating it to death too much. The young lady in the video below is very good at explaining theory.


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    Registered User John Kelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chords and Music Theory

    Your daughter was explaining things to you at beginner level and on the piano keyboard the major scale of C does indeed use only the white keys, but this is because of the way the keyboard has been designed. Each key as you progress up the board gives you a note which is a semitone above the preceding key. A major scale has scale intervals between the notes as follows: whole tone, whole tone, half tone, whole tone, whole tone whole tone, half tone. When you look at your keyboard you will see that the black keys are arranged in groups of two and three, and conveniently if you begin on any C note then there will be five black keys before you get to the next C. The C major scale is made up of the notes C,D,E,F,G,A,B and C and the black keys are not needed to play the C major scale, as C to D = whole tone, D to E whole tone, E to F half tone, F to G whole tone, G to A whole tone, A to B whole tone and B to C half tone.

    The keyboard layout as you see gives us the scale intervals for C major using only the white keys, so your daughter gave you the right information regarding the triad notes for the C major chord, but when you change to another key such a D major or any other, then the black keys have to come into play to create those whole tone and half tone intervals.

    It always looks much more complicated in writing than it really is. Sit at the piano and get those patterns into your head relating to the whole and half tone intervals. Where there are no black keys - between the E and F notes and the B and C notes - then you only have a half tone interval, so you will then have to use the relevant black key to create a whole tone interval. The major scale of D, for example, needs two black keys - the F# and the C#. This is because we need to preserve the scale interval sequence of whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half, so D, E F# G, A, B C# D.

    Hope this is of some use to you and not just adding to the confusion. It is good for all of us to sit back at times and just rethink the basics, and especially good to try to explain something to someone else!
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    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chords and Music Theory

    John Kelly is correct, like most music teachers, she was giving you a rudimentary first lesson in the key of C.

    I have written a few music lessons that show the piano keyboard, guitar fretboard and mandolin fretboard as examples which (I hope) can help you understand. Check out this one on the major scale: https://theamateurmandolinist.com/20...e-major-scale/ and this one on major chords: https://theamateurmandolinist.com/20.../major-chords/

    Compare the piano keyboards and mandolin fretboards and study the texts, playing the notes on your mandolin.
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    Default Re: Chords and Music Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kelly View Post
    It always looks much more complicated in writing than it really is.
    This is so very painfully true.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

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    Default Re: Chords and Music Theory

    Thanks guys! I had to read over these posts a couple of times, but I think I am getting it. I am going to review the lesson links also. I spent my life as an engineer. Now in retirement I love exploring new worlds.

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    Default Re: Chords and Music Theory

    Check out the Michael New videos on YouTube. His explanations are clear. Ditto Karen Ramirez. She's an organist. She too explains clearly.

    Servus

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    Registered User Simon DS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chords and Music Theory

    Learn the fretboard map.
    Scales on the fretboard while singing the number of the note you are playing.
    Doublestop associating.
    Then play the game, ‘if I’m playing the sixth note in the scale here, where would the third be? and where would the sixth’s third be? Is it major or minor?’ etc.

    Think about roots and think about physical relativity, angles and distances.

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    Registered User mbruno's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chords and Music Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by neilca View Post
    I am an untrained newbie exploring music. My daughter, the music teacher, has been helping me, so now I am dangerous.

    She told me a chord is made of a root or 1st, a third, and the fifth. Then she explained on the piano that means every other white key.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mandolin Chords.jpg 
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ID:	204805

    I was looking at the fingering for some basic chords and got confused on the D chord. Seems to me the F# in the D major chord would make it a minor chord. The F in the D minor chord would make it a major. The E minor I think should be an E major. I hope the chart helps explain what I am nattering about.
    In the picture with the piano, you're playing Dm. If you play the black key to the right of the F, you'd have F# which makes this a D major. Try then starting using your pinky on the F# key, middle finger on the A key, and your thumb on the D above the A - that'll be an inversion of D major. If you then move so your pinky is on the A, middle finger on the D and thumb on the F#, that's another inversion of D.

    Going through those inversions, you can actually see the 1 4 5 progression pretty well. For example, the F# A D inversion - if you move your pinky to the white G key and middle finger to the B key, you'll have G. If instead you move from the F# down a key to the white E key and move your thumb down a key to the black C#, you'd have A.

    Then you can try the same thing on mandolin. Use a fretboard map to find the notes if you need, you the same basic principals apply
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