Help Researching Unusual Mandolin

[mandokismet]

Hiya,

I inherited this unusual mandolin from my wife's family.

Her grandfather played this mandolin in the 40s and 50s, and her aunt said it was made by a family friend but she doesn't know when.

There are no marks on the inside. It's really light weight - no obvious structural problems.

Anyone seen one like this before? Have any information on type, design, woods, etc? Or could point me somewhere else to look?

Thank you. (And I assume the bowlback in the first picture isn't anything special, but let me know if I should upload pics of that too.)

[Jim Garber]

Very cool looking mandolin and it looks well-made as well. I have seen a few other mandolins with sound holes on the side and perhaps even one or two with no sound holes on the top.

Looks like rosewood, probably Brazilian, on the back and sides. I am sure the tuner obsessed folks will chime in here… I will leave that to them. I wonder what the bracing is like inside. I am assuming it was constructed with an induce arch to the top and possibly the back. So… how does it sound?

Do you have some more background on your wife’s grandfather: the places he lived and when he lived? And you were able to look inside everywhere (top and back and corners?) to see if there were any markings. I got a cheap video camera that works with a cell phone has a light and a flexible wire that you can insert in the soundholes to explore the inside of the mandolin. Mine is a little too cheap. I think I bought it from International Violin. I have seen ones that looked a lot better on Amazon. I think the technical name is endoscope.

That bowlback also looks like it has some nice woods. Post pics of that too, when you get a chance.

I will look in my jpeg files to see what I can find that may resemble this one. Very cool.

[Charles E.]

Looks like the tailpiece in not original based on the other holes drilled in the end. Looks like there might be some wood loss from the lower wing of the "F-hole" too.
A very interesting mandolin regardless. Hopefully some more info can be shared.

[mandokismet]

Here's some looks inside the F-hole. I looked around pretty closely and don't see any markings, though there is a good layer of dust...

[mandokismet]

And separately, here are some pictures of the bowlback, which looks like a Fernando del Perugia from 1912 (?) 1962 (?)...

My wife's aunt says she bought the mandolin for her dad while studying abroad in Italy in the 1960s...

[NickR]

I would conclude that the hardware on the mandolin cannot be used to date it and I would assume that the family knowledge of when it was first played back in the 1940s is when it was made. It has already been mentioned that there are holes near the tailpiece. This may mean that the wood for the sides and possibly elsewhere may have been used on another instrument before this was constructed. One thing for sure, it is very interesting and very nicely made and is pretty unique which is great.

[MikeEdgerton]

Looking at the tuners, the pickguard material, and the wood used as well as the family memory of it being played in the 40's and 50's I would assume 30-40's simply because that firestripe pickguard material was commonly used during that time and the tuners would be age appropriate. I would assume that the original tailpiece failed and was replaced with what is currently there. If the luthier was competent enough to build that mandolin he sure as heck wouldn't have left the holes from a previous tailpiece.

The design is actually quite sleek. The shape is a little different from what we generally see from that era and they did a really nice job with the end of the fretboard. The wood is great, the binding looks good, and the little almost open book headstock shape is tasteful. All in all even with the tailpiece holes a nice mandolin.

Now for the caveat. The value in this mandolin lies in the sentimental value to your family. Although it is a well built unusual piece, instruments of unknown origins even when this nice rarely have a huge monetary value. That doesn't mean that nobody would buy it it just means that you won't put a kid through college with it but you might get a really nice evening out for the family or maybe two depending on the size of your family.

[NickR]

I discounted using the tuners to help date the mandolin because they are brass plate "worm under" Waverly items made from the first twenty five years of the century and possibly a few decades before this mandolin was made. I would reckon the maker who was clearly a skilled person had access to instruments and chose what was available that he needed. There may have been a different tailpiece on it when it was made and may well have been a two piece Waverly type that would complement the mandolin nicely with its style that is slightly reminiscent of certain Martin models. It was made with a great deal of thought and the result speaks for itself- a very interesting instrument and presumably, unique, too.

[MikeEdgerton]

At first I thought it might have had a Waverly type tailpiece but decided the top holes were too far down.

[EdHanrahan]

Not looking to be picky, but ...

Yes, the replacement tailpiece is off-center. The bad effect is that, where the strings pass over the bridge, the A (2nd) course is almost straight while the G & D courses bend far more than the E course. If actively played, those unbalanced "centering" forces may cause the bridge to migrate toward the treble side, and the E strings to slide over the fret ends. Just something to be aware of.

Edit: Looking again, and attempting to measure on my monitor, it appears that the original tailpiece had been mounted off toward the bass side, by about the width of one screw-hole. Over-compensation?

[NickR]

The mandolin also has an end/tail strip which is unusual- not least because the tailpiece often obscures much of the area rendering the little flourish to being somewhat otiose. My Oscar Schmidt Tremolina has an end strip but it also has that fixed bridge with its string loop location in the bridge on the top- so no tailpiece, leaving the strip unobscured. So, the holes do not suggest a Waverly type bridge? I certainly would expect a more visually enhancing tailpiece as there has been much attention to detail- while also as discussed, the current tailpiece is misaligned it seems and that is probably another sign, the tailpiece is a replacement.

[Jim Garber]

Do you have some more background on your wife’s grandfather: the places he lived and when he lived?

I have a feeling that you missed this question I asked. Sometimes just knowing geographically the places your grandfather-in-law lived might give us a clue where this mystery luthier worked. Or any other info where he visited. Or anything...

[mandokismet]

Thanks for everyone's input. It's really interesting. Planning to hang onto it as a family heirloom - the F-hole was the one the grandfather played the most.

The grandfather who played it lived in Seattle, but he grew up in Vancouver, WA near Portland. I don't know whether the builder family friend was in one or the other.

[William Smith]

That side F-hole mando is wickedly kool! I've never seen one like it that I can remember anyways. From all I see it looks like a 30's build. And one would think those guitars that have no soundhole on the top but on the sides were innovative! This one has that beat. Enjoy.

[Jim Garber]

I just decided to go through Mike Holmes long list of old luthiers (for various instruments) and culled out those in WA and OR:

Luthiers OR/WA

Anderson, Albert M. Seattle WA 1924
Joyness & Means Portland OR from 1897
Merrill, Albert Herve Portland OR 1915-1925+
Polychronis, William Jim Portland OR 1926
Violian Harp Co. Portland OR from 1917
Coulter, F.E. Portland OR c 1917
Forrest, Albert J. Seattle WA 1898
Hawkinson, Olaf Seattle WA 1926
Lewis, George T. Seattle WA 1909
Lewis, John L. Seattle WA 1920
Neft, Max Seattle WA 1920
Oakes, William W. Seattle WA 1901
Venen, Albert P. Seattle WA 1892
Berge, Franz R.L. Port Angeles WA 1923
Blair, George H. Spokane WA 1903
Childs, James E. Spokane WA 1903
Gregg, George F. Yakima WA 1948
Hagberg, John Tacoma WA 1898
Knutsen, Chris Port Townsend WA c1898-1916
Lambert, Thomas B. Spokane WA 1923
Lively, Lawrence Spokane WA 1923
Livermore, Ernest N. Port Townsend WA 1896
Markham, Roland J. Spokane WA 1926
Merritt, Charles H. Bellingham WA 1928
Spencer, George M. Oroville WA 1910
Stallone, Barney A. Tacoma WA 1931
Thaldorf, William A. New Whatcom WA 1901
Van Deventer, William Tacoma WA 1891
Doughton, Charles F. Lebanon OR 1907
Howard, Reubin Parkdale OR 1928

I know it is a long list and some may not have made any mandolins but you can do some research on at least some of these. Years are those this person was active.