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Thread: Time is running out

  1. #1
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Time is running out

    You have less than 30 days to snap up this Loar at Carters in time for its 100th Birthday!

    Obviously NFI.
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    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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  3. #2
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Time is running out

    Interesting that there are two others priced at around $130k and this one is $175k. Any reason? Maybe consigner insisted on that price, paid that much for it and didn’t want to lose money? Or ami missing something?
    Jim

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  4. #3
    Registered User grassrootphilosopher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Time is running out

    You don´t miss anything Jim.

    Asking prices are definetely not necessarily purchase prices. As I see it, many of the Lloyd Loar mandolins sit for a long time until they sell. And the prices are obviously negotiable. If I am not mistaken the CJ Lewandowsky Lloyd Loar from Greece was especially inexpensive... (for such an instrument).

    The Joe Val Loar has been sold recently. How do I know? The former owner (of 36 years) has posted a wanted ad for a Gibson DMM on umgf.com (there is also the sale ad on umgf.com). He and I have crossed paths in the past when he generously let me play this great Feb. 26th 1923 Loar #72207. He had it for sale about ten years back for about 250.000,- USD. It was for sale since 2020. So it took at least two years until it sold if you discount the first effort to sell it. I do not remember the asking price (though I believe it was 140.000,- USD), nor do I know the sales price.
    Olaf

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Time is running out

    What I was asking was why that one was asking priced at $175 and the others $135. Was there something special about that one or was the owner/consigned just insistent to aim for that price. I guess if I really want to know I would call Carter’s and ask them which of the three is the best. There is not much in the description on their web site to indicate anything. Sounds like the other two… $40,000 more for a Virzi?
    Signed by Lloyd Loar on Feb. 8, 1923. Wonderful in looks as well as in sound, with a Virzi. In its original case.
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  6. #5
    Registered User grassrootphilosopher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Time is running out

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    What I was asking was why that one was asking priced at $175 and the others $135. Was there something special about that one or was the owner/consigned just insistent to aim for that price. I guess if I really want to know I would call Carter’s and ask them which of the three is the best. There is not much in the description on their web site to indicate anything. Sounds like the other two… $40,000 more for a Virzi?
    You are completely right. I was/am wondering about the same thing. What drives the price? And let me tell you, I have no answer. That is why I gave the example of the Joe Val Loar which was (in the end) priced lower than the Loar at Carter´s.

    I do not think that the Virzi is a necessary contributing factor to the price. It may have been at one time (like: "Bill Monroe didn´t have one, Mike Marshal took his one out, John Monteleone called it a tone reducer, therefore it ain´t no part of nothing"). I think that there may have been little adjustments in perspective since then.
    Olaf

  7. #6

    Default Re: Time is running out

    I think the prices on these are all over the place, in general. Although some are being sold out of estates and the asking prices are being driven by whatever appraisal was given to the executor. Unfortunately, sometimes those numbers are rather inflated.
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    Registered User Drew Egerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Time is running out

    Maybe they hope someone will feel like they got a steal at $130k if they start at $175k.
    I'm just fascinated with the difference in finish color from what I would call orange to brown (over simplifying the beauty obviously).
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    Default Re: Time is running out

    Quote Originally Posted by grassrootphilosopher View Post
    ...The Joe Val Loar has been sold recently. He had it for sale about ten years back for about 250.000,- USD. It was for sale since 2020. So it took at least two years until it sold if you discount the first effort to sell it.
    I don't understand this market. In a "normal" world when something doesn't sell in 2 years it means it is overpriced. It seems to me the market is being held artificially high to "protect" the concept of a blue chip investment. Obviously, none of these consignors are motivated sellers and willing to wait it out.

    Reminds me of real estate, in that homes in such and such neighborhood go for this amount and will not be sold for less.

  10. #9
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Time is running out

    The actual $$$ getting into the owner's hands is far less. From that $130k, take 25% off for the dealer commission, then take another 25% of what is left for the banks, credit card companies, and the IRS and it seems like a deal....
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  11. #10

    Default Re: Time is running out

    Quote Originally Posted by j. condino View Post
    The actual $$$ getting into the owner's hands is far less. From that $130k, take 25% off for the dealer commission, then take another 25% of what is left for the banks, credit card companies, and the IRS and it seems like a deal....
    True for the seller, but the buyer still pays for all of that....unless I'm missing the point? Hopefully the seller bought it years ago and still comes out OK...

    FWIW, 30 years ago I worked at a vintage shop and remember selling a one-owner 1959 Les Paul standard for $37,500....I just checked Reverb for fun and they seem to be asking 10X that amount. (too bad I was making $6 an hour back then!)

  12. #11
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Time is running out

    Around 1983 I put a Floyd Rose in my friend's '59 Les Paul. It was "just" a beat up no figure 'burst and he paid an honest $1300 for it. I was playing a '57 goldtop that I overpaid for- $375! Around the same time I passed on a 1950s gullwing Mercedes for $4k....
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  13. #12

    Default Re: Time is running out

    Quote Originally Posted by j. condino View Post
    Around 1983 I put a Floyd Rose in my friend's '59 Les Paul. It was "just" a beat up no figure 'burst and he paid an honest $1300 for it. I was playing a '57 goldtop that I overpaid for- $375! Around the same time I passed on a 1950s gullwing Mercedes for $4k....
    i watched as a luthier cut a hole in the top of a D'Angelico archtop to install a pickup in the 80's......thinking about it now, I get a little nauseous.

    hindsight, is always 20/20.
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  14. #13
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    Default Re: Time is running out

    If y'all are paying a dealer a 25% fee to consign an expensive instrument, you're going to the wrong place.

    Just an observation: The number of signed F-5's for sale on the open market has decreased by nearly 50% over the last year. The ones that had the lowest listed prices have all fallen off the market. Others have sold that were listed at higher prices.
    Last edited by rcc56; Jan-11-2023 at 5:44pm.

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    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Time is running out

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandobar View Post
    i watched as a luthier cut a hole in the top of a D'Angelico archtop to install a pickup in the 80's......thinking about it now, I get a little nauseous.

    hindsight, is always 20/20.
    I know, right? $600 was a lot of money for an old guitar back then!
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  16. #15

    Default Re: Time is running out

    Quote Originally Posted by j. condino View Post
    I passed on a 1950s gullwing Mercedes for $4k....
    For me, I passed on a 1959 Eldorado convertible for $1500, because I found a good running 1960 Coupe de Ville for $500 -- and the $1000 difference was a YEAR'S rent for me back then! 3 guys sharing $225 rent....my share $75. (not joking) Those were the days when working 3 days a week at a record store was actually a living wage!

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Time is running out

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    in time for its 100th Birthday!
    My goodness. One hundred years just ain't what it used to be.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Time is running out

    My A4 had a pre centenary re fret in time for last year..
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    Default Re: Time is running out

    Quote Originally Posted by grassrootphilosopher View Post


    The Joe Val Loar has been sold recently. How do I know? The former owner (of 36 years) has posted a wanted ad for a Gibson DMM on umgf.com (there is also the sale ad on umgf.com). He and I have crossed paths in the past when he generously let me play this great Feb. 26th 1923 Loar #72207. He had it for sale about ten years back for about 250.000,- USD. It was for sale since 2020. So it took at least two years until it sold if you discount the first effort to sell it. I do not remember the asking price (though I believe it was 140.000,- USD), nor do I know the sales price.
    Kevin finally sold it? I wonder if he got his price? I was in serious and prolonged negotiations with him for a while...I live in New England, knew Kevin from way back, and attended the Joe Val festival for many years...the idea of having Joe Val's mandolin was quite attractive to me on many levels! He insisted he would not accept less than $120k and I saw several selling for less...I ended up with a fine LL-signed F5 for quite a bit less. I wouldn't be surprised if he finally found a buyer who wanted it for the provenance and met his price. Good for Kevin, in any case!
    too many strings

  23. #19
    Registered User grassrootphilosopher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Time is running out

    Quote Originally Posted by musicofanatic View Post
    … finally sold it? I wonder if he got his price? I was in serious and prolonged negotiations with him for a while...I live in New England, knew … from way back, and attended the Joe Val festival for many years...the idea of having Joe Val's mandolin was quite attractive to me on many levels! He insisted he would not accept less than $120k and I saw several selling for less...I ended up with a fine LL-signed F5 for quite a bit less. I wouldn't be surprised if he finally found a buyer who wanted it for the provenance and met his price. Good for … , in any case!
    A source I trust and who also knows the Joe Val Loar told me who the new owner is. It’s a talented mandolin luthier. The price? I don’t know. The market is what it is. I hope that the former owner is doing well as the ad mentioned a motivation for selling the instrument that could be interpreted as health concerns.

  24. #20
    Registered User Hendrik Ahrend's Avatar
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    Default Re: Time is running out

    I know the new owner of the Joe Val F5 personally; it's in very good hands. Talking Joe Val, any of you know, which Loar Joe is holding in this picture? (It's not #72207.)

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  26. #21
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    Default Re: Time is running out

    Thanks Mike, can you float me some cash?

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