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Thread: Tips for playing chords by ear

  1. #1

    Default Tips for playing chords by ear

    So I think I understand how to play single notes and tones by ear, but for chords it's a bit trickier for me and there is a lot more guesswork. How can I eliminate some of that guesswork? I've heard some tips on trying to hear intervals. But for songs where there is a lot instruments, it's really hard for me.
    Using this song as an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymH5VVl5vtc
    (Sorry I got a bit of a strange taste in music)

    Often I use chord recognition tools like AnthemScore, or I play it on my Piano first and then transcribe it to mandolin, but the issue is, piano chords don't often transcribe well to mandolin. So what's a good way to go about transcribing chords by ear on the mandolin?

  2. #2
    Registered User mbruno's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tips for playing chords by ear

    Since many songs are based on harmonizing a scale, starting with harmonizing the major scale is usually a good practice for this. Basically just play the scale Major Minor Minor Major Dom7 Minor Diminished (or G Am Bm C D7 Em F#dim) in varying ways. The familiar 1 4 5 (G C D7) or 6 2 5 1 (Em Am D7 G) etc are good starts - but also just moving up and down the scale can help (G Am Bm C Bm Am G) with interval training.

    Not all songs are straight harmonizations though - many just use major chords instead of minor. Jimmy Martin songs for example often use the 2 major instead of the 2 minor. So, there's value in playing the chords of a scale as all major too. Progressions like 1 4 5 (G C D) and 6 2 5 1 (E A D G) still work of course but sound a bit different.

    By practice the chords in a scale (both harmonized and straight through as major) you'll get more familiar with the intervals and how progressions sound / feel. You'll be able to hear the nuanced differences between chord qualities better which can help you figure out the chord and ultimately the progression etc. Practicing this (and playing songs) will help build that muscle better so you can pick things up faster.

    Applying that to something like what you linked to however is a much harder challenge - I think just the piano and the guitar in the background are playing chords (and lightly at that). Not an easy piece to learn by ear in any case.
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  4. #3

    Default Re: Tips for playing chords by ear

    I gave that piece a listen. It doesn't have a lot of traditional chords being played, with instead the chords emerging from the various vocal and instrumental lines.

    If I cared enough to dig up the chords, I guess I'd have to transcribe the lines, and then build the chords from there. Youtube goes down to a quarter speed, so you can take the time to get that stuff on paper.

    Taking a different example, I learned guitar from piano parts on the album Aja by Steely Dan. I listened over and over, finding and singing each chord tone, then writing it down. Then I found the same tones, often having to re-order them and shift octaves to fit them on guitar.

    Same thing happens now when I learn something like BTO's Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet on mandola.

    Good luck!
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  5. #4

    Default Re: Tips for playing chords by ear

    Thanks for listening to the song guys.

    No problem Explorer, I wasn't expecting a transcription of that incredibly complex song.

    mbruno, thanks for the tip about interval training. Any good method books about this? I have "Getting into Jazz Mandolin" by Eschliman but it's hard to know how to apply the exercises.

  6. #5
    Registered User mbruno's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tips for playing chords by ear

    Quote Originally Posted by MrGuineaPigLover View Post
    mbruno, thanks for the tip about interval training. Any good method books about this? I have "Getting into Jazz Mandolin" by Eschliman but it's hard to know how to apply the exercises.
    Depends on what you are looking for I suppose. There's a book called "How to play guitar in every key" that goes over this pretty well IMO - which it's written for guitar, it's not a stretch for mandolin IMO. Any Jazz fakebook / realbook would help if you're interested in those types of changes. But really, you don't need a book to get started.

    All major scales harmonize Major Minor Minor Major Dom7 Minor Diminished:
    1. Pick a key and play the harmonized scale. Do this straight through (i.e. G Am Bm C D7 Em F#dim), in runs (i.e. G Am Bm Am G and G Am Bm C D7 C Bm Am G), and skipping (i.e. G Bm Am C etc). The point is to listen carefully to how the chords sound when played after each other. Listen for the differences

    2. Play common progressions - again listen carefully to the way the chords sound when played after each other.
    - 1 4 5 i.e. G C D7
    - 2 5 1 i.e. Am D7 G
    - 6 2 5 1 i.e. Em Am D7 G
    - 1 2 4 5 i.e. G Am C D7

    3. Hum along when you play - really helps IMO

    4. Do 1&2 with just majors (no harmonized chords) and see how that sounds.

    5. Study the progressions of songs you like. Pay attention to how the chords change and the sound / feel etc.
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    Default Re: Tips for playing chords by ear

    I hear some C#s and A majors, but didn't listen any further than that. There is a web site Chordify that you can upload MP3s to and it does a pretty good job of guessing the chords in use ( it does not transcribe melodies)
    IMHO Harmony is both one of the simplest and at the same time one of the most complex concepts in Western music.

    As suggested play or sing along and find the root note. from the root note there may be multiple possibilities of chords and chord changes, but not all music follows the rules of predictable chord changes.

    Watching a discussion on interpreting Bach, there is "implied harmony" in other words, there is no chord, but the notes Bach chooses for a particular phrase generally fit into standard chords and as you play the melody- you can "feel" the chord changes.
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  9. #7

    Default Re: Tips for playing chords by ear

    Often for more complex things I'll identify the root first, then the melody, and then extensions can be added/subtracted/altered to taste and to fit with the rest of the group. If you can find the root and the melody then everything else is pretty much decoration.

  10. #8

    Default Re: Tips for playing chords by ear

    Quote Originally Posted by tmsweeney View Post
    I hear some C#s and A majors, but didn't listen any further than that. There is a web site Chordify that you can upload MP3s to and it does a pretty good job of guessing the chords in use ( it does not transcribe melodies)
    IMHO Harmony is both one of the simplest and at the same time one of the most complex concepts in Western music.

    As suggested play or sing along and find the root note. from the root note there may be multiple possibilities of chords and chord changes, but not all music follows the rules of predictable chord changes.

    Watching a discussion on interpreting Bach, there is "implied harmony" in other words, there is no chord, but the notes Bach chooses for a particular phrase generally fit into standard chords and as you play the melody- you can "feel" the chord changes.
    I use AnthemScore, does a pretty good job, but it feels like cheating sometimes. Interesting about Bach.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by thesecretmandolinist View Post
    Often for more complex things I'll identify the root first, then the melody, and then extensions can be added/subtracted/altered to taste and to fit with the rest of the group. If you can find the root and the melody then everything else is pretty much decoration.
    This is a good idea.

  11. #9
    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tips for playing chords by ear

    A good question for you would be, “What is your musical goal?” Do you intend to play in an ensemble, or do you intend to recreate that music in a recording? Yet another might be, “Do you have trouble finding chords in ALL music or just in such ‘complicated’ music as your example?” Also, (sorry about the many questions) “Do you really find it easy to find chords by ear on piano but not mandolin?”

    Perhaps you just need the time to master more mandolin chords.

    If you’re a proficient pianist, surely you already know principles of diatonic harmony, which is what mbruno is describing?

    As far as advice: Generally speaking, in most tonic music, I’d say to practice hearing and following the bass line to help in finding harmony for a piece. On guitar, when listening to popular music, I sometimes try to find the bass notes and determine roots to find chords by ear.
    Last edited by Mark Gunter; Jan-12-2023 at 8:18am.
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  12. #10
    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tips for playing chords by ear

    Ah, Mr. G, I just saw your post in the general forum. Only been playing mandolin 2 weeks. Please share how long you’ve been playing other instruments, it would be really helpful to know more about your entire musical history. The first two musical videos you shared in that post would sit well on mandolin IMO, and those chord progressions really speak to me because I love minor tones. They have an easily heard or sensed bass line moving beneath the chord progression.

    Its really difficult though to advise a total newbie, you have a long and fun musical journey ahead of you, and the best advice is to cut yourself a little slack starting out and have fun learning on your journey.
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  13. #11

    Default Re: Tips for playing chords by ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gunter View Post
    Ah, Mr. G, I just saw your post in the general forum. Only been playing mandolin 2 weeks. Please share how long you’ve been playing other instruments, it would be really helpful to know more about your entire musical history. The first two musical videos you shared in that post would sit well on mandolin IMO, and those chord progressions really speak to me because I love minor tones. They have an easily heard or sensed bass line moving beneath the chord progression.

    Its really difficult though to advise a total newbie, you have a long and fun musical journey ahead of you, and the best advice is to cut yourself a little slack starting out and have fun learning on your journey.
    Thank you for the kind words Mr. Gunter.
    As for my musical background, I played piano when I was younger, but no longer except as a hobby. Violin is probably the instrument I'm most skilled at. Played that for about 6 years and am at the intermediate level. I know how to read standard notation and tabs. That's the gist of it.
    It's good to hear that it (might be) possible to transcribe those first two songs on my other post to mandolin, considering those are some of my favorites.

  14. #12

    Default Re: Tips for playing chords by ear

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gunter View Post
    A good question for you would be, “What is your musical goal?” Do you intend to play in an ensemble, or do you intend to recreate that music in a recording? Yet another might be, “Do you have trouble finding chords in ALL music or just in such ‘complicated’ music as your example?” Also, (sorry about the many questions) “Do you really find it easy to find chords by ear on piano but not mandolin?”

    Perhaps you just need the time to master more mandolin chords.

    If you’re a proficient pianist, surely you already know principles of diatonic harmony, which is what mbruno is describing?

    As far as advice: Generally speaking, in most tonic music, I’d say to practice hearing and following the bass line to help in finding harmony for a piece. On guitar, when listening to popular music, I sometimes try to find the bass notes and determine roots to find chords by ear.

    My musical goal right now is to record some covers by myself. More abstractly: I want to be able to learn from my favorite songs, and apply it to my own music. I have trouble finding chords in all music essentially. It's simply that a lot of the music I like is complicated, so the songs I want to do covers of are by extent. I think I have two options: find sheet music of the songs or play a simpler song by ear. I have managed to play simple melodies by ear, but that's not necessarily a massive feat. I'm going to get the theory down too, of course. I just don't know where to start. I'm not a proficient pianist whatsoever. I have a vague understanding of intervals and diatonic chords.

  15. #13

    Default Re: Tips for playing chords by ear

    I think you should start simple by listening to songs you know and internalizing the sound. Then move onto similar songs you don’t know and practice listening…for instance: I like BG, I learned alot of tunes/songs and listened to them…alot. I learned that certain singers have certain favored keys so I would listen to them and try to play along with the recording figuring out what the key was. After YEARS of doing this I now can find a key/chords pretty quick either by the sound or by picking out a bit of the melody which tells me the key.

    Now, BG is pretty straighforward as most tunes/songs are 1,4,5 chord progressions, etc. If you are looking to learn something more complex like jazz tunes with all the changes you need to begin on the ground floor and learn alot of the types of things you like. Though it seems complex jazz has a standard way of doing things - with it’s changes and chord types if one is familiar with the genre one can figure it out pretty quick - if one has a solid grounding in the process.

    Play and listen to what tou like and then you will get more proficient at identifying chords/keys…it’s not going to happen in 2 weeks so think about and note where you are now and assess yourself in 6 months. Find a teacher that can help you with this goal.

    Don’t get discouraged but do acknowledge that it will take you alot of dedicated studying to achieve your goal. Have fun.
    Last edited by bigskygirl; Jan-13-2023 at 12:07pm. Reason: add thought
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    Default Re: Tips for playing chords by ear

    Quote Originally Posted by bigskygirl View Post
    I think you should start simple by listening to songs you know and internalizing the sound. Then move onto similar songs you don’t know and practice listening…for instance: I like BG, I learned alot of tunes/songs and listened to them…alot. I learned that certain singers have certain favored keys so I would listen to them and try to play along with the recording figuring out what the key was. After YEARS of doing this I now can find a key/chords pretty quick either by the sound or by picking out a bit of the melody which tells me the key.

    Now, BG is pretty straighforward as most tunes/songs are 1,4,5 chord progressions, etc. If you are looking to learn something more complex like jazz tunes with all the changes you need to begin on the ground floor and learn alot of the types of things you like. Though it seems complex jazz has a standard way of doing things - with it’s changes and chord types if one is familiar with the genre one can figure it out pretty quick - if one has a solid grounding in the process.

    Play and listen to what tou like and then you will get more proficient at identifying chords/keys…it’s not going to happen in 2 weeks so think about and note where you are now and assess yourself in 6 months. Find a teacher that can help you with this goal.

    Don’t get discouraged but do acknowledge that it will take you alot of dedicated studying to achieve your goal. Have fun.
    Yeah, listening to similar songs is a good idea. I'll try to identify chord progressions in the songs I like and find similar songs.
    I won't get discouraged, and I'm ready for anything it takes. I love music (who doesn't) so I'm prepared to do what it takes to learn.

  17. #15
    Registered User lowtone2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tips for playing chords by ear

    Good luck. Most people have enough trouble just trying to use fingers.

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    Default Re: Tips for playing chords by ear

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtone2 View Post
    Good luck. Most people have enough trouble just trying to use fingers.
    Quite true.

  19. #17

    Default Re: Tips for playing chords by ear

    Two suggestions:

    First there is something to be said for ear training exercises such as on this website - https://tonedear.com/ear-training/chord-identification

    Second, and probably more directly relevant to playing mandolin - you could start by playing single notes that fit the tune. Most likely they will be the roots of the relevant chords - which are frequently easy enough to identify. It doesn't have to be the root though - sometimes a voice leading motion is more obvious. Play the note that works on one of the two middle strings (A or D). Add a harmonising double stop on the other string - it might be a third or a fifth up or a fourth or a fifth down - or even (and more interestingly) a note that isn't part of the typical triad structure. There is plenty of discussion elsewhere on this site about how to construct double stops. Note, though, that I'm suggesting you do this by ear, by trial and error, by what sounds right rather than by the harmonic theory.

    If - when - you get a series of double stops that work, it's a straightforward task to find bass notes that contribute something on the G string and, after that, if you want to take it further, add notes on the top string.

    I hope I'm not labouring the point too much but in all this I'm suggesting doing it by ear rather than coming from chord shapes or music theory. Bear in mind that Freddie Green - generally regarded as the greatest rhythm guitarist in jazz - frequently used only one string "chords" (forgive the oxymoron), mostly used two or three string "chords" and rarely (if ever?) went beyond four strings.

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