Builder keeps making changes with repair

[menswearhero]

So I have a mandolin from a small maker in Minneapolis, not really known in the community, but a respected luthier formerly of violins. I love the tone, but it’s had a few issues since I purchased it this past spring. In the summer it had a top crack along the center seam— ultimately after it was repaired I think the instrument opened up a lot and sounds even better, but when I got it back there was a line gouged out of the back of the headstock, perhaps from a clamp or something? I didn’t love this but felt I could get over it.

Several months after that repair I noticed a crack near the tailpiece screw— it looked like the wood had split when the tailpiece was put back on after the repair. It also has had some issues with fret buzz since it has a fixed bridge. I brought it in for those things to be fixed, and now upon receiving it back today, it has an entirely new tailpiece of a different design (this guy makes his own tailpieces) and the whole thing has been refinished or had finish added on top. The headstock and neck are still the same original finish but the whole body of the instrument has another layer of finish on it, darkening the color, and it’s obviously fresh as it’s still somewhat soft.

I know it’s the sound that matters in an instrument, but I’m feeling really upset about this. On top of all of it, each time to deal with the fret buzz the bridge has been shimmed, so come spring I think I’ll have to get an entirely different bridge, and the buzzing issue is still not fully resolved.

This guy works through a guitar shop here so I’ve never communicated directly with him, and I wonder if that’s part of the problem. Does it sound normal to have so much of the instrument changed for what seemed to me to be simple repairs? It looks like an entirely different instrument now between the finish and the tailpiece, and there are still issues that need to be fixed.

[David Lewis]

I don’t know the law in your local area, but I’m pretty sure you can’t make unauthorised changes to an item being repaired. It’s why the mechanic always rings if they find something else wrong with your car. Even if it’s minor.

I’d bring it up with the shop, and ask for a refund or an exchange. It also, perhaps, may be that the wood used was inferior (in the way that natural materials can vary in unpredictable ways). That might be worth investigating. But changing the tailpiece, fir example, seems a bit …off.

[Willow20]

Thats a sad deal we struggle finding a good Luthier around here so I know how you feel

[urobouros]

I would get the work done elsewhere if I can't talk to the tech/luthier who's doing the repair directly. I'm fortunate that there are a couple good shops in my area so I can be choosy. I suppose I've been lucky but I've never had an instrument damaged while being repaired. That strikes me as rather unprofessional and, while accidents happen, it doesn't sound like the headstock damage was addressed. I've worked with enough artists to know some can be difficult so maybe the tailpiece change was in that vein but messing with the finish without prior approval is like changing a tattoo design mid-ink without saying something. It's just wrong and even worse if you have to actually point that out!! I'd be pushing for a refund so you can take it to someone competent.

[menswearhero]

Yeah fortunately or unfortunately they did not charge me for the bridge shim or crack repair/tailpiece replacement.

I had also asked to have the nut recut as the bottom G string is too close to the edge of the fingerboard and gets pushed off. Nut does seem to have been adjusted but from the top end, not the bottom, so the problem remains. That I will be asking to have fixed and possibly refunded due to the other issues when I take it back tomorrow.

[CES]

None of this is acceptable, IMO. Some variance is expected in this type of work, but nothing like this. I had a new nut and saddle put on a D-28 style Japanese made guitar by a Martin Certified repairman last year, and the G string was a little closer to the edge than I liked, but it was still within spec and after a couple minutes playing on it I adjusted; no harm, no foul, as it really does play and sound great. I also believe that if I’d taken it back he would have replaced the nut for me without any further charge, as he’s done a lot of good work for me over the years, but I didn’t feel that was warranted. Your case is very different…sorry you’re having to deal with this…

[Jim Garber]

Very odd story. I assume this mandolin was a real bargain. But was this your commission to work with this luthier through the guitar shop or was it an existing mandolin? Also was this a used instrument or brand new and unplayed? And was this mysterious luthier the person who was actually doing the work or someone else in the shop? I just can’t imagine a respected violin maker doing this sort of sloppy work. Violinists who buy custom instruments are very particular about setup as well as cosmetic aspects. And why is this luthier no longer a violin maker? Sorry for all these questions but a lot of this is unclear to me.

If it were me at this point I might return the mandolin and ask for a full refund. I have a feeling that if you keep it there will be lots of additional issues later.

[Jeff Mando]

Sounds like a nightmare. I agree with Jim, return it and then start over with something else.

[sliebers]

You should be able to talk directly to the builder. I don't know the luthier, but I have a good idea who you are talking about and the style of mandolin.

I hope you get the issues resolved.

[EdHanrahan]

What you might do ...

When / if you DO approach the shop (or the luthier?) directly, I'd bring along, on paper, a DETAILED list of the issues encountered so far, including the outcome, resolution, progrees or lack thereof, of each of them. In other words, the bulk of your original post but -not- as a flowing narrative that takes time & effort to digest; it should state point-by-point issues that are easily comprehended and easily agreed upon as to their current status. Include dates for each issue, even if they're only approximate, and especially if they're recurring. I'd leave room for comments, lots of them, as you're unlikely to have a single, across-the-board resolution. And bring at least one copy for each of you.

FWIW, I count about 7 issues, some the result of others, but each needing resolution on its own merit. In other words, fret buzz is one issue (still unresolved), while a replaced tailpiece, even if intended to resolve fret buzz (huh??), is a separate issue. Maybe the tailpiece on it's own isn't a bad thing (the dealer surely sees it as a good thing), but it's still a complication and shouldn't diminish or dilute other issues,

I would NOT start out by suggesting return for a full refund: nothing ensures a lack of cooperation as, in effect, stating that, "I don't want to be your customer." With a reserved and judicious-enough approach (and voluminous!), the dealer may well come to that conclusion on his own.

[menswearhero]

Thanks all. Ed, your idea is a good one, as I do think some things have been lost in translation between me telling whomever at the shop and what they ultimately tell the luthier. I wouldn’t ask for a refund on this instrument unless the situation is truly irreparable; I really love the mandolin itself and just want to be able to play it.

Jim, it was an existing mandolin I played (along with maybe every one for sale in the area) and decided to buy based on the tonal quality and resonance of the instrument. I’m pretty sure the luthier is doing the work because the shop doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the instruments they receive from him other than selling them. He does seem a bit of an eccentric personality.

I’ll be taking it to a different repair shop recommended by my teacher today to get an estimate of what it might cost them to fix, if I end up unable to get everything resolved. After that I’m bringing it back to the original shop to have a tough conversation.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

What you might do ...

When / if you DO approach the shop (or the luthier?) directly, I'd bring along, on paper, a DETAILED list of the issues encountered so far, including the outcome, resolution, progrees or lack thereof, of each of them. In other words, the bulk of your original post but -not- as a flowing narrative that takes time & effort to digest; it should state point-by-point issues that are easily comprehended and easily agreed upon as to their current status. Include dates for each issue, even if they're only approximate, and especially if they're recurring. I'd leave room for comments, lots of them, as you're unlikely to have a single, across-the-board resolution. And bring at least one copy for each of you.

FWIW, I count about 7 issues, some the result of others, but each needing resolution on its own merit. In other words, fret buzz is one issue (still unresolved), while a replaced tailpiece, even if intended to resolve fret buzz (huh??), is a separate issue. Maybe the tailpiece on it's own isn't a bad thing (the dealer surely sees it as a good thing), but it's still a complication and shouldn't diminish or dilute other issues,

I would NOT start out by suggesting return for a full refund: nothing ensures a lack of cooperation as, in effect, stating that, "I don't want to be your customer." With a reserved and judicious-enough approach (and voluminous!), the dealer may well come to that conclusion on his own.

Very good advice here. My two cents: Give that repairman/shop enough time to think about the affair and possible solutions, several days at least.
Too bad some luthiers think of themselves as artists rather than service providers.

[menswearhero]

Well a mixed experience today. Had a great experience at the other repair shop, felt very listened to and respected. Really drove home the totally different vibe at the shop I originally purchased from.

Receiving tech took good notes on what needed to be done this time off my notes, but I got a whole bunch of bull and hand waving regarding the changes made, saying the luthier added finish in order to “shore up his warranty” and prevent further issues down the road (if there were further issues I’d just bring it back?) and the tailpiece was changed to help address fret buzz (I don’t think this would really be the issue but whatever I guess). All of this could have been fine but the owner jumps in toward the end talking about how the luthier is “a poor man, he’s on food stamps” and he “uses what he has”. I was so taken aback I didn’t have the wherewithal to respond, but it strikes me that if you are someone’s employer, their wage and livelihood is your responsibility, and not that of your customer? He did say at the end that he’d trade it in but it’s not the instrument itself that’s the issue here.

Really soured my already not awesome experience with the shop in general, and further emphasized to me that it’s really the shop I have an issue with and less the builder. I don’t think they give him anything to go on other than “do what you think needs done” and apparently they can’t even provide him with proper equipment. When I go to pick it up again I’ll see if I can get direct contact with the luthier and not have to deal with the shop again.

[soliver]

That all sounds odd indeed, particularly the bit about the fret buzz. I've never had luck fixing fret buzz at the bridge or the nut on my own instruments, its usually a matter of fixing the fret(s). Just sayin'

It sounds like the luthier doesn't have much mandolin related experience.

[rcc56]

It would seem to me that someone up there should know how to put a reasonably well built mandolin into good playing condition.
Try to find the person who maintains the professional acoustic players' instruments.
I wish I knew who to recommend, but I no longer know anyone in that part of the country since we lost Pete.

Something I've learned from experience: not all builders are adept at good repair work or good setup work.

[sliebers]

It would seem to me that someone up there should know how to put a reasonably well built mandolin into good playing condition.
Try to find the person who maintains the professional acoustic players' instruments.
I wish I knew who to recommend, but I no longer know anyone in that part of the country since we lost Pete.

Something I've learned from experience: not all builders are adept at good repair work or good setup work.

There are a few of us up here. Lots of guitar repair shops, but not many having expertise with mandolins. I've found it helps to be a proficient player to do great fretwork and setups. That's not always the case with some builders and techs.

[Chuck Leyda]

Interesting thread....I have a fairly good idea who some of the players are but kudos for not giving out negative publicity.

I would take the mando to Kevin Schwab at Saint Paul Guitar Repair. I would trust him to give a skilled estimate on what it would take to get the mando in good playing shape. Then you just need to decide how much you like the instrument....if you love it, pay Kevin to make it right. If not go for a refund/replacement from the original store. It sounds like increased frustration to deal with the "eccentric personality" of the luthier and shop owner.

[Jeff Mando]

... the luthier is “a poor man, he’s on food stamps” and he “uses what he has”.

Probably more common than you would think. I worked for a builder who was very talented, had a state of the art shop and storefront, a beautiful website, charged very high prices -- yet, when it came to my paycheck more often than not he would hand it to me saying, "if you don't mind please wait until Tuesday to cash it!" (always something nice to hear on a Friday afternoon)

In this case, his cash flow was the problem, more than poverty. Just the same, I finally had to tell my "boss" that I couldn't work for someone who makes less than I do!

[menswearhero]

Kevin at Saint Paul Guitar Repair is actually who I spoke to for a second opinion. He was recommended by my teacher and I will definitely be bringing my mandolin to him in the future. I do feel that this may be a case of a great builder who just isn’t as experienced with mandolin repairs.

The financial situation of the luthier just seemed such an odd gotcha to try and throw in after a negative experience? I don’t doubt that it’s true but I also feel the shop undercharges for his instruments primarily based on their look not being “factory finished”, while also building up a great deal of mystique over his genius. Seems to me they could invest in him more if his financial situation is preventing him from exercising his full potential, sounds like it would be a win win. I love the instrument so much and was looking forward to possibly commissioning an octave from him some years in the future but I wouldn’t want to go through the shop at this point.

[menswearhero]

An update: I went back to the original shop and rescued the instrument before the builder could do any further work on it, and brought it to Kevin at St. Paul Guitar Repair. He recommended swapping for a Brekke bridge and a new nut rather than recut. I decided to splurge for a James tailpiece since I couldn’t stand the new one the builder put on, and Kevin plugged and redrilled to install it. When I went to pick it up he said that the builder had probably “tried a bunch” of different tailpieces, which implies to me the wood under the tailpiece was pretty mangled. There is a visible plug right under the end of the new James tailpiece but you can’t see it with a strap on. All in all it was more than I wanted to spend at this stage of owning the instrument but the price was fair, I feel much better for it, and my sweet mandolin sings like a dream. Can’t recommend Kevin’s work enough.

He did say he thinks the tuners could be replaced, and I’m falling down that rabbit hole already. I’m seeing first hand the difference high quality appointments can make. Anyone want to vote for Grover vs Rubner? Looks like I can get either in A-style brushed/satin nickel for right around $100, which is about my limit for tuning machines.

[Peter Coronado]

That’s a great result! I have Rubners on a Red Valley flattop oval hole and they’re great.