Fancy Weymann? Bowl Back

[NickR]

It appears to have a number of features suggesting Weymann- the headstock shape and tuners from the late 19th century. Quite an eyeful and needs some work. I am posting some photos to save Mick the chore!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/29550460801...Bk9SR6y5o4DDYQ

[Richard500]

Bridge is interesting: somebody bowing it like a fiddle?
Tailpiece looks replaced.
Dual griffins/dragons/whatevers, not an everyday pattern. Betcha it sells.

[NickR]

I think the tailpiece is probably original as it is old- with the three screws going through the plate where the tangs are- not in the curved bottom section like you normally see although those screws may be replacements. Well, so far, no bids.

[Jim Garber]

I don't know what this mandolin is but I have my doubts that it is a Weymann. (I know you posted with a ?).

Some of the inlay on this one looks as if someone either added them after they acquired it from the shop or else the original luthier(s) were inconsistent on the quality of cutting pearl (or else it was Friday... "come on, Antonio, we are meeting those girls at the bar!"). The double arrowhead inlay at the bottom and extended hexagon <==> three frets up... you would think it is not so difficult to cut a straight-lined shape.

[brunello97]

Thanks for the photos, Nick!

I'll play the doubting Tomas along with Diego.

Not much here that says Weymann to me.

The overall MOP seems of a similar level of sloppiness to me. Maybe Nino was in love.



I'm attaching a couple of moderately blingish Weymann where the inlay craftwork is considerably better. Or maybe they were made on a Tuesday.

The headstock "book" isn't quite as open and overall styling a bit more relaxed.

Of course that doesn't address Nick's question mark.



Mick

[NickR]

It's a mystery, all right but here is is an 1890s or so Weymann with those tuners which is on Jake Wildwood's site I have taken a peek at. It is possible the tuners are not original to this mandolin:

[Jim Garber]

It's a mystery, all right but here is is an 1890s or so Weymann with those tuners which is on Jake Wildwood's site I have taken a peek at. It is possible the tuners are not original to this mandolin:

Do you have a link to that mandolin on Jake’s site? I couldn’t find it. And I didn’t see any Weymann’s with those tuners in my files.

[NickR]

Jim

Here it is: https://jakewildwood.blogspot.com/20...-mandolin.html

[brunello97]

I've seen those close strip tuners but will have to check my files when I get home.

It would be hard for me to make the call that this is a Weymann just on those tuners when so many other things seem odd or off.

Particularly the sloppy craft.

I used to put stock in construction details, like neck to headstock transitions. Some firms stayed pretty consistent with that....Vega for sure and and L+H mostly though both have their variations.

The other ringer for me is the bowl profile, figuring that a company would have just so many molds and use them for their in house and jobbing work both. That holds up, to my eye at least, for Vega and Martin...maybe for Schmidt and...possibly for Weymann.

Which is on my mind here. Of course, it can be hard to tell from the photo angle, etc.

That one of Jake's is old....from the alternating wood ribs, to the quasi-v neck profile, to the narrow bowl profile.

BTW enjoy JW's micro descriptions of the tonalities of his instruments.

I don't have a confident alternative to offer, but I don't think it's a Weymann.....unless perhaps it emerged out of some to-be-further-documented cooperation with Schmidt and some of the Young Turks in Chiari's crew got ahold of it to practice their bling before heading out to The Dance at the Gym...or to Rumble.

Mick

[NickR]

Mick, thank you for that interesting insight into these old mandolins. It probably is not a Weymann but it is, nonetheless, intriguing and it would be good to tie it down to a maker- but that may well prove elusive.
Weymann seemed to use those metal buttons even if most of the tuners units with them did not have those covers.

[Richard500]

No bids, now relisted for less. Imagine that our suggestion of sloppy or add-on decoration has reduced the appeal of this to collectors, even if someone knows what it is. If I were a mandolin, I could sue!

[brunello97]

No bids, now relisted for less. Imagine that our suggestion of sloppy or add-on decoration has reduced the appeal of this to collectors, even if someone knows what it is. If I were a mandolin, I could sue!

Would that mean we deserve a cut if we talk up a mandolin here and the bidding follows and it sells for a higher price?

Mick

[MikeEdgerton]

Weymann didn't make everything they sold, they were also a retailer and distributor. As for the original mandolin, it looks like they ordered one of everything available in the jobbers catalog. Maybe it was a sample used to sell the pre-cut inlay.

[Richard500]

Would that mean we deserve a cut if we talk up a mandolin here and the bidding follows and it sells for a higher price?

Mick

If the sellers are ‘us’ the effects of positive review online is an obvious benefit, especially for cult or pricy items. Haven’t been observing things for very long, but Gibson worship, for one, has obviously created new price levels… known to estate sale pickers and pawnshops alike.
Testimonials on sites like this one are lifeblood for current builders as well, few of whom can afford traditional marketing.
However, the moderators here are pretty vigilant about flagging the most egregious advertising efforts in disguise.

[Jim Garber]

Jim

Here it is: https://jakewildwood.blogspot.com/20...-mandolin.html

Thanks. That one looks Weymann-esque especially from the scratch plate shape. That shape is typical of many Weymann bowlbacks. The current eBay one’s scratch plate resembles more some Toni Bros mandolins but even then not exactly.

[brunello97]

If the sellers are ‘us’ the effects of positive review online is an obvious benefit, especially for cult or pricy items. Haven’t been observing things for very long, but Gibson worship, for one, has obviously created new price levels… known to estate sale pickers and pawnshops alike.
Testimonials on sites like this one are lifeblood for current builders as well, few of whom can afford traditional marketing.
However, the moderators here are pretty vigilant about flagging the most egregious advertising efforts in disguise.

For long time bowlback aficionados here, I'm referring to the "Eugene Effect" on Martin bowlback prices.

There was a time when many bowlbacks flew far under the radar in the US.

Bro' Eug was regularly singing the praises of his Martin (5, iirc).

I bought a few Martin bowls for a measly sum before the Eugene Effect really took...effect.

Same with Martin flatbacks, As or Bs. But we can't pin that on Eug.

We've seen it as well with the astronomical prices for the "may be, possibly, could look like something that once had a label but it fell out so it has to be a: Larson"
mandolins here.

I guess I'm partly to blame for touting the Leland Brilliantone mandolins which also used to be availabe for $150 while folks overlooked US made flatback instruments.
Those days are over.

To my ear, and pocketbook, L+H American Conservatory mandolins remain the best $$ / value ratio on the used mandolin market.

I don't seem to be influencing sales much, apparently.

Mick

[brunello97]

Thanks. That one looks Weymann-esque especially from the scratch plate shape. That shape is typical of many Weymann bowlbacks. The current eBay one’s scratch plate resembles more some Toni Bros mandolins but even then not exactly.

The Weymann label is the real tip off.

Jim...I don't have any examples of the Toni Brothers...was that a typo for "Tonk"?

Or were i fratelli Toni other obscure makers in the PA NJ NY area?

Pretty birdseye maple on the one that the Jakammu fixed up.

Mick

[Jim Garber]

Mick, we may all think we are the center of the vintage mandolin universe, but have you checked out Martín guitar prices lately? Even 1950s 18s are going for five figures. Martin bowlbacks go for more because Martín guitars do. I have touted Vega bowlbacks at least as much as Eugene but I doubt George Gruhn knows any of our names. However I’m buying up all the Leland’s I can due to the Mick Effect.

[brunello97]

So you're copping to the reason Vega bowlbacks are increasing in price?

Sometimes I think George Gruhn spins a wheel and picks a price where the pointer lands. Didn't the Koch Brothers try this with silver?

When I was first hanging out here, the student model Martin bowls were selling for well under $200. I know because I bought a few.
Then came Eugene....

I'm joking of course because Bro' Eug is such good sport about it.

GG wouldn't have paid any more attention to a bowlback back then as he would to a bowl of chowder.

Corner the market on those Lelands and give them a good home!

I'm likely saturated and am mostly aimed at convincing folks that they aren't LarBros. Good luck with that.

I've got a Castagnari button box on mywish list and likely will be starting to shed some of those Lelands this year.

If you drive up the price, it will be a big help!

Mick