Best practices for starting to attend an Irish session

[Amanda Gregg]

I had a rather demoralizing experience at a local session this afternoon. Great musicians, nice people, good music. I'm hardly a beginner at this point, but I knew not a single tune they played. I've heard the rule to not try to play a tune you don't know at Irish sessions, so I sat there with my banjo in my lap like a total idiot.

So, what should I have done? How does one start going to a session? This one is very welcoming and open to new players, but it seems to be run by an established group who have been playing together for years and have developed an idiosyncratic repertoire. Maybe I should have just attended, took notes, made recordings, and left my instruments at home?

[Jim Bevan]

Did they not ask you if you'd like to lead a set?

[Simon DS]

You already play really well. Excuse the personal observation but I feel that you don't like to make mistakes, I mean you'd rather not play than make a mistake. That's something that will change.

You have to record their whole session. Judging from your level you could easily work up twenty tunes.

Two things that a lot of people don't realise is that when someone new arrives in a group they are not the only ones who are nervous, have all sorts of feelings etc.

The other thing is that I would say at least half of session goers have feelings about the banjo, namely if it's played well it's one of the most beautiful instruments. Played badly - often just one bum note and it's another story.
Why not just bring your quietest mando? Pick up the banjo for your performance tune.

Oh, and another is that if they've done a lot of work in the past to 'overcome their differences' and be able to play together then they won't want to lose that nor have to do even more work. Being friendly isn't the same being as welcoming. (You're welcome join SAW)

[Jill McAuley]

I think Amanda's last paragraph sums up a good approach - namely attend the session without your instrument to see what tunes are played at it (and see if it's even a session that you have an interest in participating in vs. one that isn't a good fit for one reason or another), and record it if the other attendees are ok with that. I also think Simon has a good point in that, there are certain instruments that if a new person shows up at the session with one of them (banjo, bodhrán, guitar come to mind) then the regular attendees might be a wee bit unsure until it's been confirmed that the person in question has a decent grasp of them - that might be why no one at the session asked ye if you wanted to start a set of tunes, but nonetheless it does seem poor form on their part to not do so, in my opinion anyways.

[Bren]

These days, I'm brazen enough to ask, Do you mind if I play a tune?

Having said that, the sessions in Aberdeen, even if they have a fairly tight core of regulars, always get irregular visitors too and and you couldn't really say they have a set repertoire from one or two visits.

I'm on the road in Australia at the moment , and have encountered a couple of smalltown sessions that have been a bit cliquey (in choice of tunes, if not in personal relations) but they are far outnumbered by the mixed local/visitor sessions. On one recent occasion, I thought I'd wandered into a "local session for local people" only t find we were almost all blow-ins and had all been thinking that "everybody else" were locals.

[Narayan Kersak]

The fact you started with nice people and good music is an indication it is not as grim as you might have felt. You could've shown up and meant a few unwelcoming people or music with terrible rhythm and too many guitar or bodhran players!

The key for you is to learn a bunch of the tunes they know. So it might take a few times of you sitting there with a recorder and asking, what were those tunes called?
This will familiarize them with you and they'll see you're willing to make an effort to honor the tunes and the music. If you really love the music and really want to participate, this will work really well, and in a month or so (depending how fast you learn tunes) you'll be having the time of your life!

I've participated in several sessions. Some groups were so closed, they wouldn't even talk to me. Some were such a train wreck (poor rhythm) I went home with a headache. One session I basically got asked to leave because they didn't think I was as good as them. A few years later I was working to help lead the sessions. Recently, started a new session in WV and we have folks coming from hours away to join in and it is a really awesome time. Sounds like you have a good possibility, so just learn some tunes, play when you know them, and hang around. It'll probably go well for you.

[Tervs and Tunes]

Amanda -

Did you attend the Montpelier Rabble Rouser session? I'm a regular there, although I did not attend yesterday. Happy to fill you in on the scene. You'll be fine. You just need to understand the local approach. We can take this discussion offline. Also happy to chat on the phone if you are so inclined.

By the way, it's become a mini-tradition that the opening set of the session consists of the jigs Shandon Bells, High Part of the Road and Rolling Waves. Learn those, and you'll at least have your foot in the door.

Matt

[Phaedrus157]

Thank you for the link to Asheville Celtic Mandolin Collection. Great book and I just ordered on Amazon.

[Amanda Gregg]

Amanda -

Did you attend the Montpelier Rabble Rouser session? I'm a regular there, although I did not attend yesterday. Happy to fill you in on the scene. You'll be fine. You just need to understand the local approach. We can take this discussion offline. Also happy to chat on the phone if you are so inclined.

By the way, it's become a mini-tradition that the opening set of the session consists of the jigs Shandon Bells, High Part of the Road and Rolling Waves. Learn those, and you'll at least have your foot in the door.

Matt

Yes, that's the one. Just sent you a message. As I said, clearly great folks, very nice, but I wasn't up to speed on their tunes.

[Amanda Gregg]

Thanks for your replies, everybody. I felt bashful ask to lead a set, because it wasn't my party, and because most of what I know are the "top 100" common-type tunes. (I expected they wouldn't appreciate hearing something like Hardiman the Fiddler for the 1000th time, no matter how well I play it.) Next time I go, I'll leave the instruments at home and just take some notes and make some recordings. It's a far drive for me, but maybe after ~six months or so of attending occasionally I could learn enough to feel comfortable trying to play.

[Chris Calley]

Seems like many Irish/Celtic sessions perform tunes that may be less well known in general, but are regular for a given session. That was my experience at a weekly session that I frequently attend. When I first started with them I knew maybe 10% of the tunes. I sat there a lot holding my instrument. After a year I probably know 60-70%, and am still putting in the work to memorize new tunes every week. They have a nice PDF of the tunes and sets that they draw from, so that helps. If I don't know the tune, but the chords are obvious I will just play the rhythm. Making up alternate lead lines on the fly is not done.

[Jairo Ramos]

How sad...I thought, after years of reading about those "sessions", that they were places where musicians "who love music" met and encouraged new participants, at least, to integrate and collaborate strongly in it...but after reading the comments it seems that there are strange "sessions", closed clubs of people absorbed in their egos, without time to tell the new visitor "come on, let's listen to what you do a little, surely we can accompany you"...

I'm sure there must be more polite and friendly "sessions",and they are the majority, apparently you have had bad luck with the one you found... ...of course...

[newton]

How sad...I thought, after years of reading about those "sessions", that they were places where musicians "who love music" met and encouraged new participants, at least, to integrate and collaborate strongly in it...but after reading the comments it seems that there are strange "sessions", closed clubs of people absorbed in their egos, without time to tell the new visitor "come on, let's listen to what you do a little, surely we can accompany you"...

I've never gotten that impression about Irish sessions (I don't play in them, just read about them online). They seem fairly exclusive and don't do a lot of accompaniment.

[Tervs and Tunes]

How sad...I thought, after years of reading about those "sessions", that they were places where musicians "who love music" met and encouraged new participants, at least, to integrate and collaborate strongly in it...but after reading the comments it seems that there are strange "sessions", closed clubs of people absorbed in their egos, without time to tell the new visitor "come on, let's listen to what you do a little, surely we can accompany you"...

I'm sure there must be more polite and friendly "sessions",and they are the majority, apparently you have had bad luck with the one you found... ...of course...

I attend the session in question on a regular basis. It's a great, welcoming session. Please do not speculate about the character of the session. I have contacted the OP privately, and I'm happy to fill her in on the dynamics of the session.

[Jairo Ramos]

It was not my intention to offend anyone...my most sincere excuses...but I am not speculating, I am simply commenting on what I read about Mrs. Amanda's experience, at no time does she comment on "any approach towards her or welcome", etc. In other words, the help that Mrs. Amanda asks for here in the cafe is the help that she should have received in that "session"... ...and Mr. Narayan's clear comment...

[Tervs and Tunes]

... I am simply commenting on what I read about Mrs. Amanda's experience, at no time does she comment on "any approach towards her or welcome", etc.

I don't understand or find what you think you read. Amanda specifically said: "Great musicians, nice people, good music .... This one [session] is very welcoming and open to new players"

I've been attending this session for about 15 years, and I've known many of the musicians for 30-40 years. Again, please do not judge or speculate.

[Jairo Ramos]

I don't understand or find what you think you read. Amanda specifically said: "Great musicians, nice people, good music .... This one [session] is very welcoming and open to new players"

I've been attending this session for about 15 years, and I've known many of the musicians for 30-40 years. Again, please do not judge or speculate.

Well, Mr. Tervs and Tunes, the good thing about all this is that she found you here in the cafe, I am sure that if she had met you at the "session", you would have dispelled all her doubts at that moment ...thanks cafe!

[Simon DS]

[twaaang]

Amanda, I fear this is a week late to catch the latest program, but any northern Vermonter should be aware of these classes run by Hilari and Benedict. They certainly helped to bring me in to sessions, and gave me both a repertory and a network of people to sit in with. Since I had to leave the area, I still find they gave me a solid background of tunes for showing up to an unfamiliar setting. Hoping this helps! -- Paul

https://www.vermontirishtrad.com/our-programs

[twaaang]

Just back from looking at The Session:
If Rabble Rousers is still meeting at the same little shop that used to be Bagitos, it could fill up fast, which I found rather daunting since I was unable even to hear myself on mandolin -- not an unusual thing in Celtic. I knew B&H before then, from a smaller thing that used to meet on Langdon Street, where I learned promptly that the bluegrass Sailor's Hornpipe (Bill Monroe, Bill Keith) was a far thing from a Celtic hornpipe. But enough for remote advice, I'm sure Matt already has more useful suggestions. -- Paul

[PhillipeTaylor]

Generally speaking, when I remain sensitive and try to figure out WHY a session is run a bit "differently" than I expected or am used to, I look closely and notice that there are reasons that usually make sense. Once I understand, I can figure out a way to relate that lets me participate or I learn that this isn't the session for me (and the reasons are usually understandable). That doesn't mean there's anything WRONG with how they operate. Each session is a group of different people who go week after week to generate their own "vibe" that they cultivate over the course of YEARS or sometimes even DECADES.

So, then, I also notice that some people will come along, flitting about from session to session, and want do just do THEIR thing, and want the session to operate THEIR way, without getting a sense of what is going on, and not taking the time to learn how THIS session operates. They also tend to play obnoxiously loud, complain about how others play, even though, quite frankly, THEY are the ones who need to spend a few hours running the tune at 60bpm, and these people just seem intensely discourteous and entitled to me. They are as much a phenomena around sessions as some of the other things I hear reported about. And these individuals seem to never make ANY ATTEMPT to UNDERSTAND what is going on, and often never have a long-term session they remain committed to, and never put much time in to really learning the tunes or finding out what tunes the group plays and at what tempo, and how well they want players to play before EXPECTING to join in and crash the vibe.

Yes, Irish session can be quite welcoming and inviting. AND they may have some criteria that one should attend to in order to demonstrate proper courtesy. Guest-host relationships have criteria for BOTH sides. As a guest, you have to learn some things and do some things properly. Your participation is contingent on the time YOU spent practicing, and the attention you pay to how things operate at THAT session. So, that's my two cents on this.

[Tervs and Tunes]

Paul -

Bagitos went out of business about three years ago, so the session moved just 40 yards down Main Street to a new location, i.e. Rabble Rouser. Same musicians though. More space, and great acoustics.

Are you still playing that fine old Gibson F-style you purchased? Although my mando is not in the same class as yours, I'm playing a restored 1915 Gibson A with an amazing sound. Used to belong to my former bandmate, Tim Whiteford, who passed in 2019.

Matt

[Amanda Gregg]

Generally speaking, when I remain sensitive and try to figure out WHY a session is run a bit "differently" than I expected or am used to, I look closely and notice that there are reasons that usually make sense. Once I understand, I can figure out a way to relate that lets me participate or I learn that this isn't the session for me (and the reasons are usually understandable). That doesn't mean there's anything WRONG with how they operate. Each session is a group of different people who go week after week to generate their own "vibe" that they cultivate over the course of YEARS or sometimes even DECADES.

So, then, I also notice that some people will come along, flitting about from session to session, and want do just do THEIR thing, and want the session to operate THEIR way, without getting a sense of what is going on, and not taking the time to learn how THIS session operates. They also tend to play obnoxiously loud, complain about how others play, even though, quite frankly, THEY are the ones who need to spend a few hours running the tune at 60bpm, and these people just seem intensely discourteous and entitled to me. They are as much a phenomena around sessions as some of the other things I hear reported about. And these individuals seem to never make ANY ATTEMPT to UNDERSTAND what is going on, and often never have a long-term session they remain committed to, and never put much time in to really learning the tunes or finding out what tunes the group plays and at what tempo, and how well they want players to play before EXPECTING to join in and crash the vibe.

Yes, Irish session can be quite welcoming and inviting. AND they may have some criteria that one should attend to in order to demonstrate proper courtesy. Guest-host relationships have criteria for BOTH sides. As a guest, you have to learn some things and do some things properly. Your participation is contingent on the time YOU spent practicing, and the attention you pay to how things operate at THAT session. So, that's my two cents on this.

By "these individuals" in this case you mean...me, I assume! Fair enough. For what it's worth I'm really trying my best to be a curious, open-minded good citizen.

[Ranald]

Amanda said: "By "these individuals" in this case you mean...me, I assume! Fair enough. For what it's worth I'm really trying my best to be a curious, open-minded good citizen."

I think Phillipe was talking about a real issue that affects jams and sessions (I've experienced this), but not implying that you were one of "these individuals." I believe he was just explaining the protectiveness of some musical groups. I'm a rather self-conscious person and have often "scouted" a session without my instrument before deciding to participate, but that's just me. Sometimes, I regretted not bringing my mandolin or fiddle to the first gathering. Good luck.

[PhillipeTaylor]

Amanda said: "By "these individuals" in this case you mean...me, I assume! Fair enough. For what it's worth I'm really trying my best to be a curious, open-minded good citizen."

I think Phillipe was talking about a real issue that affects jams and sessions (I've experienced this), but not implying that you were one of "these individuals." I believe he was just explaining the protectiveness of some musical groups. I'm a rather self-conscious person and have often "scouted" a session without my instrument before deciding to participate, but that's just me. Sometimes, I regretted not bringing my mandolin or fiddle to the first gathering. Good luck.

I have gone to a session where I couldn't play a single tune. I was taught to respectfully ask if I could record on my phone to learn the tunes and enjoy the show - Then go back home and learn those tunes at the pace and level they play them!

I have had many uncomfortable experiences visiting sessions. I'll likely have more. Misunderstandings occur. People run their sessions different ways that serve the needs of the people who attend every week. It would be presumptuous of me to expect a group of people who may have known each other for years and built this session and gotten this venue, often through a great deal of hard work to bend over backwards for me, a one off visitor. It is appropriate for me to learn how they do things, and try to change how I do things to fit into their session. Never the other way around. I run a learning session, and this is an important lesson for approaching a session we all need to learn. It isn't a "class". It isn't a "service". We aren't entitled to join in. It's a group of people who have created a beautiful event together through shared commitment and we MAY be allowed to join, provided we're respectful and don't muck it up.

Some sessions I can join in right away. Some sessions I can aspire to join. Some sessions I can only marvel at and appreciate from afar. Such is life!