$4,000 A Snakehead

[NickR]

We saw the A2 snakehead in need of repair go for about $2250 recently while here is one in, apparently, museum quality condition being offered at $4,000. We'll have to see how it performs. I made a mistake in the headline which I cannot amend as it looks like an A- no inlaid logo and one set of rings around the sound hole.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/39446582739...3ABFBMjqPStMth

[journeybear]

Not sure what's going on here. You can edit the title within three hours of a post - you just have to "Go Advanced" to access that field. But I'm guessing you did that already, because it just says "A" and not "A-2," which the ad does. And while I'm at it, you can't change the title of the ad, which says this is a "Loyd Lora Era" instrument. Lawdy! If one is going to set the opening bid that high, one should take care to present it without such a glaring era - er, error

[NickR]

Journeybear, I didn't manage to edit the title and I think the seller has changed his title -as I don't recall it stated any model or Lloyd or even "Loyd" Loar! Maybe, one of the moderators helped me out! I think you can edit an eBay listing if there are no bids and this one is a BIN but I may be wrong.

[journeybear]

OK, that was a guess. Usually the mods will post that they made a change like that, but maybe whoever did thought it wasn't worth mentioning, so ... And AFAIK only the seller can change anything on an eBay ad, Otherwise, the "won't get a bid" thread would have a lot less material to work with! Oh and you're right - it's a BIN. That $4k is the asking price, not opening bid level.

Anyway, looks like we're all good to go here. Glad I don't have a dog in this hunt. I recently pulled the trigger on a '24 A-Jr. - and for a lot less than this - so I finally have a snakehead. And can put my MAS back in its room, for good. I hope!

[MikeEdgerton]

I was in a hurry this morning. Sorry.

[NickR]

Well, it's all good that the headline was amended as I had tried and failed- but I know now how to do it in the future- although I am sure, I will forget! Congratulations on your snakehead A-Jr. I assume you don't want a snakehead A!

[Geno]

Here is that instrument in the Mandolin Archive listed as an A-1. http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/74232 That looks right.

[Tiderider]

If the serial number the seller lists is correct then it's here and documented. http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/74232

[brunello97]

Mercy!

Here are a couple photos of it.

(It's not that hard to do, fellas....)

Mick

[Geno]

I wasn't trying to post a copy of a pic from the ad. The link to the Mandolin Archive listing is to point out that this mandolin is not an A-2 or an A, it is an A-1. It was in the possession of Elderly Instruments at the time of the Archive listing and was correctly identified. We don't know why the ebay seller is calling it an A-2. It certainly could be an honest mistake.

[Tiderider]

Geno already posted what I was posting. http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/74232

[Ray(T)]

In order to be considered “museum quality”, doesn’t it have to have it’s original pickguard?

[NickR]

"this mandolin is not an A-2 or an A, it is an A-1."

Gibson never used the designation A-1 as far as I know during this early 1920s time period- just A-Jr, A , A-2, A-3, A-4. The Style A began to be made in 1910 and the A-1 finished production about 1917 and was superseded by the A-2, so it is a bit complicated at times.

[Tom C]

about 10 years ago, I had the chance to but an A-2 snakehead that had tortoise binding on the back. If I recall, orig and not too many made that way. Should have grabbed it.

[JEStanek]

You guys are putting an awful lot of expectations on an eBay ad! Also, it's fairly common for eBay ads to not have reasonable prices as they are fishing expeditions.

Jamie

[Geno]

"Gibson never used the designation A-1 as far as I know during this early 1920s time period- just A-Jr, A , A-2, A-3, A-4. The Style A began to be made in 1910 and the A-1 finished production about 1917 and was superseded by the A-2, so it is a bit complicated at times."

That's what Paul Fox's book claims, but then here's a good pic of the label of #74218, which is clearly stamped A1. #75447 is the same and has a 11918 FON which Spann lists as "1923 Production Year, Model A-1". http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/74218

[journeybear]

Well, a lot of us do a lot of fishing around hereabouts, especially if something looks a little bit ... fishy.

[NickR]

Geno: Yes, that label is interesting, all right. I spent some time at the Mandolin Archive yesterday and many- from memory, were listed as A around this time and very few as A-1 and most do not have photos and those that do do not show the label in detail, but that label could not be clearer. It just begs the question- and I know there were always anomalies to a degree, what is the correct designation of the same mandolins with different coding? We cannot see the type code for this eBay mandolin and when he first posted it, he did not state it was an A-2, as he does now. I would reckon if it was A-1 on the label- as on the one at the Mandolin Archive, this would be what he added to the auction heading after I made my first post here.

[rcc56]

Our reference books are not always entirely complete, nor do they always agree with each other.
According to Gruhn's Guide to Vintage Guitars, 2nd edition, model A-1 was discontinued in 1918, but reintroduced in 1922 with the following specs:

Single soundhole ring, single-bound top and back, most with no peghead logo [but some with silver paint logo], black top finish, and brown finish on the back and sides.
The snakehead peghead is introduced in 1923.

The model is discontinued again in 1927, but is re-introduced again in 1933 with standard peghead, unbound back, white silkscreen logo, and sunburst finish.
F-holes are introduced in 1934, and several other changes are made until the model is discontinued for the final time in 1943.

The ebay example appears to conform with the specs for a 1923 model as listed in Gruhn's book.

[NickR]

"The ebay example appears to conform with the specs for a 1923 model as listed in Gruhn's book."

That certainly seems to explain the sudden re-emergence of the A-1 designation in 1923 and makes perfect sense and confirms further the complexity of the models at this particular time.

[Ray(T)]

I have an A-1 from this period (not in the archive). The FON points to ‘23, the S/N to ‘24 and it has worm over tuners; which some people claim to have started in ‘25.

[mrmando]

In order to be considered “museum quality”, doesn’t it have to have it’s original pickguard?

The pickguard is included and appears in the last photo. There is a photo of the label but it's too blurry to make out much, and the Style section of the label is obscured by strings.

If this were an A2 we'd ordinarily expect it to have a headstock logo and a bound fretboard. But specs during the snakehead era are not always consistent.

"Museum quality" depends on the museum, I guess. The top finish has numerous surface pits, best seen in the last photo. The case has a fair amount of wear, both inside and outside. Some people won't accept a vintage Gibson case unless it still has its hinge ribbons. The ribbons in this one are long gone.

[Ray(T)]

Oops! Didn’t get as far as the last ‘photo. When I got to the second front & back views, I thought I was going round again.

[Tiderider]

Do we agree this is the same mandolin listed in the Mandolin Archive registry? If we do then it is listed as an A-1, so it was identified as an A-1 went it was registered. Just a thought.

[Steve 2E]

Here’s some quick pictures of my 1923 A1. Looks quite similar to the one on EBay.