Just starting out -- Should I really learn to "read music"?

[r0gue]

Every Good Boy Does Fine, FACE, Staff, Time Signature, etc etc...

I've been muCking around with guitar for decades (poorly) and never learned to read music. I used tab for a while, then basically went to playing by ear. Which I suppose is why I play poorly. Anyway, I'm setting out to learn mandolin with my daughter. She's coming off of several years of playing instruments in school. So she reads music already and is flying through her lessons with great success.

My first lesson will be this Thursday. I am assuming I need to suck it up, look and play like a 7 year old, and blunder through learning to read notes. Mary had a little lamb and so forth...

Did you learn and do you use sheet music?

[Steve Mead]

Learning by ear and reading sheet music both have their pro"s and con's but they are not exclusionary, you can do both!. By learning to read you will unlock the wealth of music available in that form that may or may not be in the traditional aural repertoire. When you transcribe a tune using your ear you can write it down with your notation skills so that you will not forget it. To me it is like learning to talk but not learning to read or write. I believe I learned to read music in the second or third grade at school, by 4th grade I was in the school band, so it is not really that complicated.
Go ahead and do it! It will certainly do no harm. Put a clip on tuner on your mandolin, when you play a note it will tell you which one you are playing and then you can find where it fits on the staff.

[Jim Garber]

Notation is a valuable tool but it is not the be-all and end-all. And the value of it depends on what genre of music you play. My first instrument was piano so I could read notation and I could read a bit when I took up guitar. However, playing folk traditional styles I mostly developed my ear learning capabilities. That carried over to when I played a lot of mandolin & fiddle. However my reading on mandolin improved a bit when taking up classical mandolin. I am closer now though to being a sight reader, playing unfamiliar music to a moderate tempo, than before. I don’t use TAB at all since I can generally get fingering and positions from notation or listening. One advantage of notation over mandolin TAB is that you can play musuc written for other instruments. Nothing wrong with TAB—I just don’t use it.

So, let us know how these lessons will go. Are both of you taking lessons together from the same teacher? What genre(s) does this person teach? If you want to learn to read standard notation do it but it will take some time. I would imagine that you and your daughter might do better in separate lessons or even different teachers at some point.

BTW your dissatisfaction with your guitar abilities probably has nothing to do with learning by ear. There are lots of musicians who can’t read notation who are wonderful musicians. A good teacher can work with you one way or the other.

[Bob Buckingham]

If you want to be musically literate then yes. There is no need to read music unless you like the idea of looking at a piece of music and being able to play it. It would enhance your musical intelligence but it is entirely up to you.

[tmsweeney]

Yes learn to read standard notation, I myself can not site read -but its quite common you just need to "practice". I do reference sheet music all the time to learn new music, I am not a big fan of tab or ABC, but that's just me.

Music is a language so it can be represented abstractly.

Think if you wanted to hear all the stories about a particular place, person or event, but you had to rely on other people telling you the story.

Agree with Steve, you can do both and will do both, just because you can read sheet music doesn't mean you won't pick up tunes by ear. The two methods strengthen each other.

I recommend a good teacher but if that is challenging Muse score will play notion you load into it , so if you are not sure what the notation should sound like- the computer will demonstrate for you, you can also slow down the tempo, easily change key, or play parts as loops to focus.

A classical guitar teacher of mine scoffed at the students who would do thier graduation performances with sheet music, he believed true mastery of a piece involved
memorization. It could be compared to "knowing" song lyrics or reading them from a page or screen as you sing.
That being said professional musicians who can site read ( and play what they read well) have the advantage in the "working musician" field.

So Yes - learn to read standard notion, but don't feel you have to have it to learn or play a tune.

[Chris Fannin]

When I started mandolin last April, it was my intent to learn to read. I've played guitar and bass on and off for 25 years, learning mostly by ear and teaching myself music theory. I'm still working on reading but I believe it's helped a lot, especially with the up/down pick strokes with quarter and eighth notes. It also helps when communicating with other musicians.

[CES]

Another vote for yes, but don’t neglect your ear training. Playing guitar will help you out when you eventually play with others (because you’ll be able to follow chord progressions easily), and I will say the songs I memorize most easily are those I learn by ear or painstakingly watching and listening to video. I can sight read tab but when I look at staff my brain immediately translates the notes to sax fingerings, lol, from all the practice with that when my brain was a young sponge. That said, I can (slowly) transcribe from sheet music to tab, which is very helpful. This is a reminder that I need to get my Standard Notation for the Tab Addicted Mandolinist out again and make another go of it.

Of course someone will chime in with the old joke, “Do you read music?” “Not enough to mess up my playing!” Our brains all work differently, so find what works best for yours and roll with it. Good on ya for starting with some lessons though. They’ll get you started in the right direction and hopefully avoid bad habits that can be hard to undo. Oh, and, your daughter is going to smoke you, so mentally prepare for that, lol!!

[Chris Gray]

I once asked Mike Compton that same question and he replied "Bill never knew how to read notation"...

[banjoboy]

Interesting that the term "tab addicted" was mentioned. It could be said the same for those who read notation. I've encountered several musicians who were trained in classical music that read notation, but could not jam or improvise to save their lives. In order to play, they had to have sheets of music in front of them. Notation is a tool, just like tab and learning by ear. Will it hurt your playing to learn notation? No. But it's not the only way to learn. I have found that hearing a piece of music is really important when I sit down to look at tab as sometimes tab doesn't make complete sense by itself, which is where ability to read music might be helpful. Also, regardless of whether or not it's tab or notation, you might find that no matter how much you practice a section of notes, your body just might not let you perform a certain lick or passage of notes. Learning by ear will help you learn musical ideas/licks that you can insert and use when you come across those problem sections.

[Austin Bob]

Reading music is essential if you are playing in a group that regularly plays new or different music, such as in a marching band, choir, or similar group. Other than that, it does help to figure out the scales, as the flats and sharps for the particular key you are playing in is displayed right there on the sheet.

But for just learning a new tune, tabs are very useful, especially when used with a program like TablEdit. You can set the speed to, say 50% for a new song you're trying to learn, and basically just follow along on the screen to play a tune.

I played for years and years without reading. At the age of 55 I joined a choir and eventually learned how to read. Playing by ear has helped me to be able to just sit down and play along with almost any song I hear. Reading has expanded on that and helped me to learn more theory and play an exact part when needed. Both are useful to know, and are not exclusive. Ideally, you should eventually learn both, but for beginners, I would just advise some online resources and learning tabs.

The best advice I can give to beginners is to focus on your picking hand. The pick drives the rhythm, the beat, the soul of the music. You don't have to be incredibly fast to sound good, but you do have to keep accurate time.

[DavidKOS]

Notation is a valuable tool but it is not the be-all and end-all. And the value of it depends on what genre of music you play. My first instrument was piano so I could read notation and I could read a bit when I took up guitar. However, playing folk traditional styles I mostly developed my ear learning capabilities.

Yes, there are certain genres of music that do not really make use of notation.

I read music a lot ...but not when playing Cajun, country, folk, rock, etc.

Another vote for yes, but don’t neglect your ear training. ....
Of course someone will chime in with the old joke, “Do you read music?” “Not enough to mess up my playing!”

“Do you read music?” “Not enough to mess up my playing!”

I love that, but have also told folks that I can play by ear, but not enough to hurt my sight reading....which is a joke, because even when reading music my inner ear works.

The old Italians would make you learn to sight sing from notation before you ever touched an instrument.

My New Orleans music teachers, who could play jazz by ear but also read show or symphony scores, said that a "complete" musician could play by ear AND sight-read.

[bigskygirl]

Gaining new knowledge and skills is never a bad thing.

If you’re playing bluegrass, folk, country develop your ear. If you want classical and community band type stuff then you’ll need to learn notation.

It’s not hard to learn notation but I think you’d be better served learning what’s behind the music…IOW theory. If you don’t already know gain an understanding of how scales and chords are constructed and what modes are and why they are used. So much more but with an understanding of basic theory and a good ear…you’ll go far young man.

[fatt-dad]

no. you should learn to play with others. I mean basic stuff helps - chords with keys - but give yourself some time to make music, then learn to read.

f-d

[Hudmister]

The mandolin is an excellent instrument to use to learn to read music. Only four strings (note pairs) so things go quickly, just a little progress each week and six months later you're well on your way and you won't want to stop progressing. Even if you never get to the stage where you can sight read to a tempo reading allows you to learn a new piece of music with confidence that you are playing the correct notes. Learning a tune by ear is a useful talent to develop but there is no assurance you have all the notes correct until someone points it out to you. Bite the bullet and give reading a try.

[Dan in NH]

Learning tab is very helpful, and so easy that it doesn’t even count as a skill.

Learning “by ear“ is a CRUCIAL skill, essential if you ever hope to progress past a “hummin’ & strummin’” player. Don’t knock this. I’m only just now getting it down.

The only argument against learning to read music is “naw, I don’t gotta.” No, you don’t HAVE to learn to read music. If you don’t then just be aware that you are making a conscious choice not NOT learn something that is part of being a proficient musician.

[mandocello8]

learn your dots or you never play complex music (release the penguins)

more from John Stump here:
https://lostinthecloudblog.com/2010/...d-death-waltz/

[Dave Hicks]

I'm grateful to Lou Martin for making me learn to read 40 years ago. I'm not very good at it, but I can read at the level of a fiddle tune, which has been quite helpful. (I stay away from anything with dotted 13th notes in C#, though.)

D.H.

[mbruno]

Not too dissimilar to folks that can speak a language but can't read / write in that language. You can become a pretty good and get your ideas across, but you're limiting yourself significantly. That said, some great musicians I know can't read sheet music and only understand a little of music theory - they play by ear and feel alone. I'm always impressed that they are as good as they are without knowing the fundamentals of theory - seems like fighting with one arm behind your back.

Learning to read (and write) opens a ton of new music to you, improves your ability to understand more complex musical ideas, helps with interval recognition and ear training in a way and tons more.

I learned to read through those Mel Bay books. They are actually pretty well laid out if you take them like a school course - meaning do it daily, review the lessons often, and do your homework. I also used flash cards A LOT. I wrote flash cards for every note (one side had standard notation, the other the name of the note), then put them in my car. If I was in traffic or a red light, I'd pull them out and go over them. Also how I learned scales, modes, and a plethora of other things. Flash cards are a bit underrated IMO

[foldedpath]

I voted yes (for me) but genre is important. I play Irish and Scottish trad these days. I wouldn't have bothered learning to read sheet music back in my Blues period, but it's a good thing to know in a genre as fiddle-centric as Irish/Scottish trad. I'm not a good reader; I can't sight read at tempo like my fiddler Significant Other. I puzzle my way through the dots and still do most of my learning of new tunes by ear. But I use sheet music in a few different ways:

• I print out the closest version of a new tune I'm learning and stuff it in a binder, and over the years that becomes a handy reminder of old tunes I used to know when I forget how to play them.
  
  
• If it's a tune I'm learning along with my fiddler S.O., we can both begin learning the tune from the dots and make sure we're both in sync, then we move on to playing by ear.
  
  
• I use the free MuseScore software to alter tune settings I've found on thesession.org so they match the setting played in local pub sessions.

Is still think of myself as primarily an ear learner, but sheet music is a useful adjunct to that process. The final part of working up a new tune is always by ear, often with reference to a recording of a famous artist's interpretation. The dots can't carry that information.

[Josh Levine]

If you are doing a style of folk music such as bluegrass or old time and hope to be able to play by ear I would try to stay away from paper. I started on tab and if I could do it all over again would have started learning by ear.

But, yes, I would say tab and standard notation can be helpful if you ever need them. Tab will get you started quickly but may make it harder to connect with the music if you are relying on it too mich. I kind of know how to read, but not well. It would take me time to figure what is going on. If you are looking to learn a music style where music literacy is important (classical, jazz styles) it would be a good place to start.

[brunello97]

Think about it with a different analogy.

My mother insisted we learn to speak Spanish growing up. I didn't get the point of it at first.

Ever practical, my dad said something to the extent of "Son, think of all the new people (aka girls) you are going to get to meet."

He was right. And I got right on it.

Same thing happened when I finally learned to read music. I met a lot of new music.

Including some great music Bill Monroe probably would have had some difficulty playing by ear.

When somebody told me "learn your pentatonic scales" I didn't need to read music to do so. That little bit of effort took me to all kinds of places.

I don't have to speak Spanish. Until I want to. Learning the language didn't make me unlearn English.

I don't have to read music. Until I want to.

Mick

[urobouros]

I took violin lesssons in school for 3 years before they cancelled the program & I started taking private lessons from a Suzuki teacher. The Suzuki Method emphasizes learning by ear so while I was in the first book for playing, I was in the eighth book for theory. It was a great way to develop my musical knowledge & I highly recommend it. Since you don't have that kind of time at this point in your life, I would argue tab would be the better choice because it's easier to pick up & more intuitive. The only caveat would be how you think in general. For one friend, he thinks of everything in intervals so it's all feel whereas I like to think of the notes by name.

[CarlM]

Victor Wooten talks a lot about how to learn music. He compares it to how we learn language. First we learn to hear, then we mimic the sounds trying to jam with people. Only later do you learn to read.

No one would ever suggest being illiterate is a good thing. Reading opens up worlds and broadens horizons. However learning to read before learning to speak would be a disaster unless you are deaf. Reading is wonderful and helpful but learning to listen and hear is absolutely essential even if you read.

I have known players who tried to substitute books and reading for ear development or, in a couple of cases, even listening at all. Those people sucked as musicians to put it mildly. They were not fun to play with or listen to.

When I was younger I worked out of books a lot mainly because there were not good instructors in my area for the styles of music I wanted to learn. It was a struggle. I also ruined more than a few records, picking up the needle and putting it back down. I gained more from that exercise. I struggled for years, for example, with Deep River Blues from a book. I finally learned it when I got a cd and sat down with it for a few days. I was hitting all the right notes but did not have the proper rhythm and bounce.

I did not make great progress in music till I found people to play with though. And got a great instructor.

[Kenny]

Every Good Boy Does Fine, FACE, Staff, Time Signature, etc etc...

I've been muCking around with guitar for decades (poorly) and never learned to read music. I used tab for a while, then basically went to playing by ear. Which I suppose is why I play poorly. Anyway, I'm setting out to learn mandolin with my daughter. She's coming off of several years of playing instruments in school. So she reads music already and is flying through her lessons with great success.

My first lesson will be this Thursday. I am assuming I need to suck it up, look and play like a 7 year old, and blunder through learning to read notes. Mary had a little lamb and so forth...

Did you learn and do you use sheet music?

Above all, what is your music? If you plan to play baroque music in ensembles then yes, learn to read standard notation. If your goal is ####### around the campfire, then no. If you want to become a better, more versatile musician, then yes. If you want to play old time music in small groups or jams, then maybe, maybe not. Play blues a la Yank Rachell, Vol Stevens or Howard Armstrong? Then no.

The music you want to play should be your guide as to what to study and practice. There’s no drawback to learning standard notation even if you will be playing Chicago blues but notation won’t help you along that specific path. As a beginner, try it all and absorb all you can from your teacher.

[Caleb]

When I was new to the mandolin I took a stab at learning to read notation. I gave up quickly and haven’t regretted it. For me there was absolutely zero joy and excitement in the endeavor. Everyone’s mileage will vary.

I think a lot of it depends on what kind of music you want to play. Once I settled on the fact that my mandolin life will likely always consist of a handful of old tunes, my ear and a bit of tab was all I’d need. I’m content with that. But if I wanted to play classical music, it would have been different.

The thing that comes to mind for me is that learning to read music doesn’t automatically produce a musician. I think of all the kids I knew growing up who took piano lessons but never stayed with it. People who love music will find a way to play it, and those going through the motions won’t.

The thing that excites me is finding pieces of music I can’t stop playing. I’ve not needed the ability to read notation to do that. With YouTube available I’ve almost stopped using tab too, but I mostly just find someone playing the tune (usually on the fiddle) that I want to learn, and I can almost always pick it up just by watching.

Lots of ways to learn. No need to pick just one.