Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: What to Do?

  1. #1

    Default What to Do?

    My girlfriend recently acquired her dad's old Raymond bowlback mandolin, which is unplayable due to the indentation/crack on the left side of the top sound board. Id like to get it repaired (I know a guy who makes his own guitars who could probably do it) but I dont know how old it is and Im not sure if repairing it would drop the value. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Teacher, repair person
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Southeast Tennessee
    Posts
    4,077

    Default Re: What to Do?

    Hard to say anything without pictures, but it's probably an early 1900's "made for trade" instrument made in a Chicago or New York area factory, and not particularly valuable-- most likely no more than a few hundred dollars. Repairing it won't reduce the value if the repair is well done. But if the damage is bad, or it needs a lot of other work to make it playable, the cost of the repair might exceed the value of the instrument.

  3. The following members say thank you to rcc56 for this post:


  4. #3
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default Re: What to Do?

    Raymond was a brand for the Wurlitzer Company. The mandolin was probably made for them by Lyon & Healy or perhaps some other Chicago Company, as Bob said.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jim Garber For This Useful Post:


  6. #4

    Default Re: What to Do?

    The problem has to be more than a crack if it is actually unplayable. Something would be making the strings too high or too low.
    Few repair people are comfortable with bowl backs, but most can address a top crack if that’s all that’s wrong.

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Richard500 For This Useful Post:


  8. #5
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: What to Do?

    In the condition as you have described it the value is basically nothing. If it was playable with no cracks or defects the value might be $100.00 to $200.00 maybe $300.00 on a good day if the planets align and you find the right buyer. Repaired the value isn't going to be more than that. The cost of doing the repair will probably exceed the value of the instrument no matter what. If you're going to get it repaired then go in with your eyes wide open. Also, as Richard has mentioned it might not just be a top issue and that bowlback construction is unlike any guitar your friend has ever seen.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MikeEdgerton For This Useful Post:


  10. #6

    Default Re: What to Do?

    How do I post pictures? I'm new to this site (surprise suprise)

  11. #7
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: What to Do?

    Here is a short video tutorial created by the site owner on how to post a picture. If that doesn't work for you try the message above it in the thread.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  12. The following members say thank you to MikeEdgerton for this post:


  13. #8

    Default Re: What to Do?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20230312_160010.jpg 
Views:	136 
Size:	970.2 KB 
ID:	206596

    - - - Updated - - -

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20230312_160053.jpg 
Views:	87 
Size:	342.6 KB 
ID:	206597

  14. #9
    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Cornwall & London
    Posts
    2,921
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default Re: What to Do?

    Two top cracks, plus sound-hole crack, possibly caused by having too heavy strings on there such as those currently on it.
    Slacken off the strings today, don't try to tune it again, then decide on repair pathway.

    A side-on photo showing the full length of the instrument would give a chance to see whether it needs a neck reset.
    Looks like a decent player's instrument otherwise.
    Eoin



    "Forget that anyone is listening to you and always listen to yourself" - Fryderyk Chopin

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Beanzy For This Useful Post:


  16. #10
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: What to Do?

    I don't think the cracks are the only problem with the top.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  17. The following members say thank you to MikeEdgerton for this post:


  18. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    332

    Default Re: What to Do?

    Mike is right. Unless it is an issue with the light reflection it looks like there is some top distortion. A closer side view of the top, neck soundhole are would help to see of the neck is starting to cave in the top.
    Bob Schmidt

  19. The following members say thank you to Bob Schmidt for this post:


  20. #12

    Default Re: What to Do?

    Bob: you and Mike are correct: the reflection IS from the indentation that is dropping the bridge on that side, resulting in strings that are too close to the fretboard. Whether the indentation (prob caused by something giving way somewhere under the 'pick guard') caused the crack, or vice-versa, I'm not sure.

    I'll post some side view pics later tonight.

  21. #13
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default Re: What to Do?

    Could easily be a brace under the top and might be fixed by humidifying the mandolin and regluing the brace though I might think it is a lot harder to do that through the small soundhole on these bowlbacks.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  22. The following members say thank you to Jim Garber for this post:


  23. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    S.W. Wisconsin
    Posts
    7,507

    Default Re: What to Do?

    If it's not a brace loose under the fingerboard extension, one could be added for support. There is more than just the cracks, there is the cause.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  24. The following members say thank you to pops1 for this post:


  25. #15

    Default Re: What to Do?

    Regardless of monetary value, I think it’s a fine looking one and might be considered family sentimental. Yes, bowl back repair isn’t available everywhere, but the saving grace is the sound hole, which provides access for the clamps needed to raise and glue the brace or put in a new one. Same tool set as for guitars.
    But put a straight edge along the fretboard and see where the strings will or won’t intersect the bridge (if the bridge is back up where it belongs). That will tell you if the neck has deformed, which is a much bigger and more expensive deal. Assume the string height at fret 12 is a bit less than 0.100” when set up.

  26. The following members say thank you to Richard500 for this post:


  27. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Corinth, VT
    Posts
    156

    Default Re: What to Do?

    My sister-in-law bought an A.C. Fairbanks bowlback recently, from a work colleague. She doesn't play: I do, and I repair. She showed it to me, and because she has found many useful items(including instruments) at her town 'dump'(or exchange/freebie hut), and given them to me, i said I would fix the top crack(n/c), it look easy and straightforward.....

    It was not(partly because someone with no idea of repair had put glue in the crack, but not clamped it). This is only the second bowlback I've worked on...because the first was also not straightforward either. As noted above, bowlbacks are challenging to repair, and mostly have little cash value. I did successfully repair the Fairbanks, and it came out well. But it would need additional work to play well(frets, poor neck angle, which will not happen).

    My point is that, for the OP, the top repair may well not be simple(expensive), and only once that is done can it be safely strung up, and any other issues affecting playability then determined, and priced.

    Best of luck!

  28. The following members say thank you to Dave Richard for this post:


  29. #17

    Default Re: What to Do?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20230316_232424.jpg 
Views:	71 
Size:	407.1 KB 
ID:	206610Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20230316_232403.jpg 
Views:	63 
Size:	147.0 KB 
ID:	206611Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20230316_232337.jpg 
Views:	66 
Size:	265.7 KB 
ID:	206612Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20230316_232317.jpg 
Views:	63 
Size:	314.5 KB 
ID:	206613

    Looking down the neck from the tuning pegs (the 1st photo) the warpage/indentation is very apparent!

  30. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Location
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts
    446

    Default Re: What to Do?

    egads! mandolin kaput!

  31. The following members say thank you to mandocello8 for this post:


  32. #19
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Tavistock UK
    Posts
    4,438

    Default Re: What to Do?

    Now there's a challenge!

    I would probably want to remove the top, steam it back flat, glue up the cracks and possibly make new braces - the originals will certainly be loose, and may also be distorted out of shape. Oh, and that bridge needs a replica making that isn't all bent out of shape!

    Perfectly repairable, you just need to decide if it's worth the $$'s.

  33. The following members say thank you to Tavy for this post:


  34. #20
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default Re: What to Do?

    Ah,yes, family heirlooms like this are what drives the burgeoning bowlback repair industry, pouring literally tens of dollars into the world economy!

    Unless the OP’s guitar-repairing friend wants a challenge or is willing to do a big favor this may be a good candidate for the bowlback wall decoration. OP does not mention if GF even plays mandolin. Raymond might be fine as a part of the decor and would be fine to remind her if dear old dad.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  35. The following members say thank you to Jim Garber for this post:


  36. #21

    Default Re: What to Do?

    Good point! Wall hangers serve a fine purpose, IMHO.

    Of course, I can also enjoy seeing a junkyard full of rusted, non-running antique cars -- I see no need to spend thousands making an old car drivable, just to realize it doesn't have air conditioning or cruise control...

  37. The following members say thank you to Jeff Mando for this post:


  38. #22
    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Cornwall & London
    Posts
    2,921
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default Re: What to Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavy View Post
    Now there's a challenge!

    I would probably want to remove the top, steam it back flat, glue up the cracks and possibly make new braces - the originals will certainly be loose, and may also be distorted out of shape. Oh, and that bridge needs a replica making that isn't all bent out of shape!

    Perfectly repairable, you just need to decide if it's worth the $$'s.
    When I saw this one I was thinking "I'm sure I've seen Tavy resurrect a similar case"
    These always remind me of the Teddy Bear's Hospital cases of the musical world;
    Thinking it's worth the money or you'll end up with a lovely teddy to give to the grandkids kind of misses where the value might lie. (not to mention the choking & fire hazard!)
    These cases are for softer hearts who want the connection to the past, the feeling of carrying the family baton forward, rather than an investment piece.
    How much to fill the room with & hear the same sounds that gave pleasure to her dad?
    Eoin



    "Forget that anyone is listening to you and always listen to yourself" - Fryderyk Chopin

  39. The following members say thank you to Beanzy for this post:


Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •