Identifying unmarked bowl backed mandarin - UK

[Bookreader]

I don't know a lot about mandalins, but I acquired this one in a charity shop in Berkshire, UK. It is completely unmarked as far as I can see, so I have no idea how old it is or where it's from. Does anyone know more than me?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ifceeytgqabpvv/20230330_175255.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eag7bvksnh1nkk0/20230330_175242.jpg?dl=0

[Richard500]

Someone may have a detailed ID, but the first things that strike me are:
It’s set up for nylon strings, and quite possibly not mandolin tuning - so, how long is it, or how long between the vibrating ends of the string (nut to bridge).?
It is moderately old, and the tuners operating in that ‘sideways’ manner may be Europe, although also not definitive.
The tailpiece (where the strings attach at the bottom, are recent and also weird, another sign that this has been in use, not lost in an attic.
The overall shape is called ‘bowl back’ which was most popular before about 1900, but continues to this day, so not a positive indicator.
It looks pretty good overall, but it would take a player or repairer to say if it’s in playable condition.

[MikeEdgerton]

For posterity:

[NickR]

The tailpiece looks like it has been flipped around. The part that should be screwed to the back has been flattened and screwed into the top. The headstock is interesting but we cannot see it properly.

[Bookreader]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5f8rx5ddgr...31053.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kj32vjfosy...31036.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2xtzndyq0q...31029.jpg?dl=0

[Bookreader]

The whole instrument measures 23 inches

[Bookreader]

There are holes in the end below the tailpiece.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sphdp9cb46...34728.jpg?dl=0

[Jim Garber]

The tailpiece looks like it has been flipped around. The part that should be screwed to the back has been flattened and screwed into the top. The headstock is interesting but we cannot see it properly.

Agree about the tailpiece. The original method of attaching the strings consisted of four pegs in the bottom of the the bowl its two string anchored on each. Those holes look to be filled with wood glue now. I wonder if the top is sunken so a photo from the side would be helpful. If the top maintained its bend then it could be made playable.

[MikeEdgerton]

As long as as nobody thinks this has much monetary value because people rarely pay for examples of alligator dentistry such as this.

[Bookreader]

Agree about the tailpiece. The original method of attaching the strings consisted of four pegs in the bottom of the the bowl its two string anchored on each. Those holes look to be filled with wood glue now. I wonder if the top is sunken so a photo from the side would be helpful. If the top maintained its bend then it could be made playable.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aebmto3gy6...73849.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qxjfzyie1z...73752.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aykov95nwu...73716.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jcx2pz87xs...73640.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qaguhcfdw8...73625.jpg?dl=0

[NickR]

Well, that's a "redneck restoration" all right. Whoever did that tailpiece was a comedian, it's just horrible. Looking at it, I think the mandolin is German but we still cannot see the headstock- the tuners are certainly German but just about everybody in Europe was using German tuners in the period this was made although pegs in the end are found on Italian mandolins- my Vinaccia has them. It looks like quite a nice instrument but it needs to be sorted out- the tailpiece re-orientated and then carefully strung up with ultra light strings- assuming the braces etc are okay beforehand. Once strung up, it may be okay or it might show other issues under tension. I have an old Harmony made S S Stewart where some joker took off the tailpiece and got a Gibson style type which he bent and screwed on to the bottom of the instrument but at least the screws went into the tail block! I got a two piece cloud type and all was well. Drilling holes into the top to anchor a tailpiece, is beyond stupid. The tailpiece looks like a brand new item- and there was no reason it was not mounted correctly other than invincible ignorance.
You may find that a tailpiece has screw holes some of which might go into the holes filled with glue. If that is the case, the glue needs to be carefully removed and some small dowels glued in. You can then screw on the tailpiece. You may find that the screws do not go over or near those holes but it might be problematic. I don't like pegs as in my experience, the loops on strings are not large enough to go over them and you have to unwind the loops a bit- a fiddly process and this may make the strings prone to failing. I gave up and dumped the problem on my luthier as the instrument needed a repair.

[Cando]

Might be a pre 1900 instrument:
-This type of small symmetrical scratchplate looks pretty 1800s
-bowls consisting of alternating wood types seemed to have their hayday before 1900 (though you can find them to this day)

[MichaelJW]

Nice set of mismatched strings by the look of it.
I assume the 'strings' are only pretend strings but has it been strung for left hand ie trebles on the left and lowers on the right?

[Jim Garber]

More posterior photos and for everyone's convenience. When we get a chance, perhaps someone can explain to the OP how to upload images.

[vic-victor]

Possibly French from Mirecourt