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Thread: Standard Notation for Tunes

  1. #1
    Registered User jnikora's Avatar
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    Default Standard Notation for Tunes

    About a year ago, I found a website called musescore.com. It has thousands - maybe hundreds of thousands, of scores available. I have searched across many genres - Irish, Scottish, bluegrass, French musettes, Ukrainian, Romanian folk - the list goes on. I have only come up empty handed a few times. Most queries bring back multiple submissions for different versions, ensembles or solos, keys, etc. If you read notation, this site is a must. It is free to view and all are playable with a MIDI synth. You can subscribe for around $30/year which allows you to download and/or print the scores and upload your own.

    I have absolutely no financial connection or incentive to share this - I have just found it too valuable not to share.

    Here is my only submission to date:
    https://musescore.com/user/37144362/scores/10355041

    Jim
    Last edited by jnikora; Apr-01-2023 at 7:51pm. Reason: typo
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    Default Re: Standard Notation for Tunes

    FWIW, (1) crowd sourced tune books have sketchy quality dots and chords, (2) without paying $30/year, for $0 sites like https://thesession.org/tunes/1 have all the common tunes, plus discussions, corrections, background, etc. (3) for obscure tunes you are better off buying the composer's tune books.

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    Registered User DougC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Standard Notation for Tunes

    At first glance MuseScore public crowd source seems valuable. But as a long time 'generator' of tune scores, I can say that you would not want to see half the tunes. Ha, ha.

    Moreover, if one becomes expert and discriminating, one quickly recognizes poor writing and sloppy attention to detail rather quickly.

    Good sources are reviewed and edited and have a good reputation. AND They can be free because some dedicated people did the hard work and want to share the love of music.

    (As opposed to a corporate marketing scheme that uses Artificial Intelligence software to track your interests.)

    Quote Originally Posted by mandocello8 View Post
    FWIW, (1) crowd sourced tune books have sketchy quality dots and chords, (2) without paying $30/year, for $0 sites like https://thesession.org/tunes/1 have all the common tunes, plus discussions, corrections, background, etc. (3) for obscure tunes you are better off buying the composer's tune books.
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    Registered User jnikora's Avatar
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    Default Re: Standard Notation for Tunes

    Thanks to both for your input. I have been using the session.org site for years and have made several submissions - mostly versions of existing tunes - all of which require the use of abc notation, which I find cumbersome and impractical for actual use. I use to be a tab fan and used tabledit.com for a long time, but, for me, it is inferior to standard notation. It is incomplete and digital. Notation is an analog visual representation of the melody, timing and even dynamics.

    As for all the useless stuff, there is an equal amount on the session, though I often refer to it for comparison, different versions, tune origins and other facets in the comments - but only after searching for specific tunes. I only browse search results and I find musescore has better search power, e.g., "Gow" will bring back hundreds of results for Niel Gow's compositions or his many sons' or with his name in the title or referenced in the submission. Too much? Add another word to narrow it. I just traveled to Romania (my ancestry and long lost extended family). I found hundreds of Romanian folk tunes. Etc. Cello suites? Almost any genre. Much broader scope than Session or others I have tried. And my tastes have long since widened from Bill Monroe and straight Irish.

    Doug - I see you are in Minneapolis - me too. Maybe we should communicate and see if we have similar musical interests. You can message me here or my email address is j.n@blue-note.com.
    Jim Nikora

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    Registered User DougC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Standard Notation for Tunes

    Yes, it is a big world out there. I have nothing against MuseScore or any other commercial collection of private submissions. As you say there is some good stuff out there. However personally I prefer a less intense exposure to the internet.

    All transcription systems have their faults. Even standard notation. I learned ITM via abc2Win software and after 20 years, it is still useful. TAB has it's place too. But the audio recording tells so much more about how the music sounds 'in the hands of the masters' and for this reason my preference is IrishTune.info Alan Ng's collection of recordings.

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  7. #6

    Default Re: Standard Notation for Tunes

    Thank you Jim for the score or your tune Transylvania Vamp on MuseScore! I find it much better than the Tabledit version, easier to hear the melody and understand.
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    Registered User mbruno's Avatar
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    Default Re: Standard Notation for Tunes

    I use Musescore all the time. It's super helpful for writing things out, correcting sheet music from other sources, and easy to transcribe to other keys. It's really helpful when sharing with friends too since you can easily add / remove tabs or make minor edits. For ~$50 / year, it's worth it to me - but I think even their free version is pretty nice.

    That said, I haven't used their library too often so I'm not sure what's there etc.
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    Registered User John Kelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Standard Notation for Tunes

    I too use Musescore a lot, but in the same way as Mbruno has mentioned - I use it to create music and to share notation with musical friends. I find it is a great asset to have as I can quickly produce TAB (in various formats) for those who prefer to use this and I can import abc files into Musescore via a plug-in. The plug-in had stopped working a while back but there is another one available which works well. It can also convert standard notation to abc, though I have not used this facility. Transposing is another function that I use and I love the ability to play back what has been written so that I can hear the work as it progresses.
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    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Standard Notation for Tunes

    I use the Musescore program a lot, and also use the music library at their website. Not so much for bare melody lines of fiddle tunes -- there are better free sites for that -- but for editable scores of classical pieces and full arrangements of pop or folk material. The big advantage over IMSLP is that you can download in Musescore format and then adapt the score to match your own preferences on instrumentation, key or clef. This used to be free, but unfortunately the option of downloading in Musescore format is now limited to paid subscribers, except for scores where both the composition and the arrangement are public domain.

    Another useful feature of the Musescore program is that it can import MusicXML. Most commercial music notation software can export in MusicXML. In the case of Finale, the free "Finale Notepad" app will read Finale source files created with the full commercial software and export to MusicXML. IMSLP has Finale files for many classical pieces and I've used this route to convert them to Musescore.

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    Default Re: Standard Notation for Tunes

    Quote Originally Posted by DougC View Post
    At first glance MuseScore public crowd source seems valuable. But as a long time 'generator' of tune scores, I can say that you would not want to see half the tunes. Ha, ha.
    If half of the tunes are usable to someone then I see it as a valued source.
    I generally go to MUSIC NOTES first when looking for a specific tune as the selection is generally more in line with my musical tastes opposed to MuseScore. I can often select the key that I prefer and guitar or lead sheets.
    My preference is for the lead sheets (I have a very limited ability to learn a melody by ear without the dots to get me started.) from the lead sheets I can add, build, revise to add filler.
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    Default Re: Standard Notation for Tunes

    I love Muse Score and have been using it for a while, appreciating some of the programing improvements over the years. I agree with Doug C that some of the notation posted online is questionable, but you will get that with any "unfiltered" file sharing system.
    I use it as a guide for learning mostly, I can slow the tune down, loop a section, play along with it, try different keys, try different chords and rhythms, voicing and so on. I have been able on occasion to notate by ear, tunes I have a hard time finding in print, or my own compositions but I have not written in a long long time.
    I will often enter notation into Muse Score even though I have it on paper, something about "notating" helps me with memorization.
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    Default Re: Standard Notation for Tunes

    Yikes, a Muse Score 'love fest'! I may as well add my comments...

    First the bad stuff. I don't like how they started out as a free app run by some person in England and slowly it was purchased by a big corporation and then, well you know the rest. Then, because they had millions of users, that did not want to pay the high fees for Finale and Sibelius the time was ripe for charging fees. Now they watch very quietly, how the program is used and shared and then...

    The good. MuseScore, as some have described earlier, can do a great job of creating charts, and TAB and my favorite, big fretboard diagrams. For paid members I think it can interpret pdf scores. I have used ABC files for years, and Finale (a.k.a MakeMusic Software). Importing these formats is especially appealing.

    Unfortunately, the 'upgrades' quietly drop some features and add others. But this happens with the other programs. The 'good old ABC program is the exception. Also I think that MuseScore requires a 'membership' or fee in order to search their collection and interpret pdf files. Right?

    Another unfortunate aspect, for me at least, is that MuseScore operates in quite a different way, and I've used Finale for 20 years and I'm not happy about learning another way to do things. I've also transcribed and entered over 300+ scores that are in Finale; not even in XML.

    MuseScore was 'free, open source' software and as such, was adopted by our local music school. (MacPhail Center for Music - Minneapolis). Finale was local and therefore, reason enough to support my neighbors. Then they moved to Colorado and ... oh well.
    Now MuseScore is now a big company and I'm not sure what the school is going to support. I guess I'm glad my wife is gonna retire.

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    Default Re: Standard Notation for Tunes

    @DougC
    MuseScore was 'free, open source' software
    As far as I know, it's still free, open source.
    The latest version can be downloaded (including the source) on this page:
    https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/releases
    I don't use musescore personally because I use another open source software
    (lilypond) that I build from source and it suits me fine.

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    Registered User Simon DS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Standard Notation for Tunes

    Now if I had a copy of the source code for mandolintab.net and could feed it into AI...

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    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Standard Notation for Tunes

    Quote Originally Posted by DougC View Post
    Yikes, a Muse Score 'love fest'! I may as well add my comments...

    First the bad stuff. I don't like how they started out as a free app run by some person in England and slowly it was purchased by a big corporation and then, well you know the rest. Then, because they had millions of users, that did not want to pay the high fees for Finale and Sibelius the time was ripe for charging fees. Now they watch very quietly, how the program is used and shared and then.……………

    I just want to play mandolin and fiddle guys!
    I don’t mind paying folks for their work. I suspect that ‘one guy in England’ was happy to get paid. I moved from free to paid and when I need a score not in a fakebooks, I’ve been lucky to find enough transcriptions there to make it worth the fee.
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    Registered User DougC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Standard Notation for Tunes

    These 'impressions' from my experience are a bit misunderstood.

    I pay folks for their work as often as I can. (Partly because I've put in a lot of unpaid time myself...).

    Another 'impression' that may or may not be true is that the MuseScore world does seem more commercial. Look at their website. https://musescore.com/

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McCall View Post
    I don’t mind paying folks for their work. I suspect that ‘one guy in England’ was happy to get paid. I moved from free to paid and when I need a score not in a fakebooks, I’ve been lucky to find enough transcriptions there to make it worth the fee.
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  23. #17
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Standard Notation for Tunes

    Quote Originally Posted by DougC View Post
    ……….Another 'impression' that may or may not be true is that the MuseScore world does seem more commercial. Look at their website. https://musescore.com/
    If it’s on the web, it’s commercial. Even here.
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  24. #18
    Registered User mbruno's Avatar
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    Default Re: Standard Notation for Tunes

    All software has a cost. The main question these days is how is that paid - through data, through SaaS (ongoing), or one time fees with upgrade options. No wrong way to collect IMO.

    The one guy in England likely was paid via data in a round about way (i.e. more users signed on, more valuable the company was for purchase etc). This is a good way for small (and even larger) developers to create an ROI for their work without hindering adoption.

    I know tons of people who hate the idea of SaaS and would rather pay 1x for the product for various reasons (i.e. if the company goes out of business the SaaS product stops working while the 1x pay should continue to work, SaaS company could raise / add fees without you noticing, feel the costs of SaaS will be more than fixed etc). Totally understandable.

    IMO however the SaaS model of $50 / year for Musescore vs the one time $299 plus $99 / major upgrade with Finale is a pretty straight forward choice. Though until this discussion, I didn't realize Finale had an academic license for $99 one time which is much more attractive on costs (and includes private teachers!). I may have to check that out to see what's different.
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  26. #19
    Registered User Simon DS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Standard Notation for Tunes

    I'm always amazed at all the work that goes into these sites.
    Building a site is expensive and then there's all of the work.
    It's got to be millions of hours of work involved.

  27. #20
    Registered User briankwood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Standard Notation for Tunes

    I don't know about subscriptions for Musescore. The program is free to download and use. I use it in transcribing fiddle tunes for anyone interested. The site is free. http://fiddletunes.net

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