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Thread: 12 string guitar "conversion" that does it all?

  1. #1
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    Question 12 string guitar "conversion" that does it all?

    I have read the threads about 12 string "conversions" (changing string guages, really) and my question is:

    My interests lie in playing trad tune accomp. and melody playing, old time tunes, general folk purposes and possibly swedish music at some point.

    I currently own a Fylde Octave, which I use for trad accomp in GDAD. Great for backing, for tune playing the D string is killing me.

    I´ve researched and played a few 10 string instruments in DGDAD and GDADG (short neck) tuning. Both make a lot of sense for me, the longer scale in duo settings and the short scale for playing tunes in first position, which needs some getting used to, but is doable.

    So the obvious solution is a DGDADG 12-string. Guages are realistic, quality instruments are plentiful with attractive prices on the used market and the best of both worlds is combinde in one istrument, what could possibly go wrong?

    Since there is no such a thing an instrument that`s perfect for everything, what am I missing?

    Thanks a lot!
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  2. #2
    Registered User hubrad's Avatar
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    Default Re: 12 string guitar "conversion" that does it all?

    My thought is that it has to be worth a try.. if you don't like it, put regular strings back on and sell it again.
    Of course, we'll be expecting a full report!
    www.stevetilston.com (double bass duties)

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    Default Re: 12 string guitar "conversion" that does it all?

    My thoughts exactly. But there has to be a catch, there alway is
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    Default Re: 12 string guitar "conversion" that does it all?

    You could look for a standard 12 string guitar with a short scale-- Martin and others made some models that were under 25".
    The Martin D12-20 and D12-35 were ~ 24.9". I don't know about the later models.
    Levin 12 string guitars were also built with the shorter scale, but those instruments tended to be overbuilt.

    You would have to go pretty light for the high strings-- .009" might work.
    If you wanted something with a more typical 21 or 22 inch octave mandolin scale, you might have to have one custom built.

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    Default Re: 12 string guitar "conversion" that does it all?

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    You could look for a standard 12 string guitar with a short scale--

    You would have to go pretty light for the high strings-- .009" might work.
    Makes sense. I see Lakewood is building their 12 strings with a shorter 630 mm (24.8 ") 13 fret scale. These should be available used around my area.

    Tried the tuning on the 6 string today - it´s surprisingly confusing at least in the beginning. I´m used to standard mandolin and guitar tuning, and the mixture of 4th and 5th intervals subverts my tonal expectations in all the wrong way
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    Default Re: 12 string guitar "conversion" that does it all?

    You might try the following tuning on your guitar: D-A-D-G-B-D.
    Lots of drones, and much more flexible than something like DADGAD.

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    Default Re: 12 string guitar "conversion" that does it all?

    a DADGAD 12-string guitar is a very powerful machine, stronger than an OM (12 vs 8 strings, more is better). lots of people play both rhythm and melody leads in DADGAD. I say worth trying. I have seen 12-string to OM conversions, all underwhelming (12-string body is overbuilt, too heavy for 8-string load).

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    Default Re: 12 string guitar "conversion" that does it all?

    One issue with the OP's original proposal is that g' (392 Hz) at a scale of 25.5" is very close to the breaking stress of a regular steel string (g#' is the nominal breaking frequency of a standard steel string at that scale). As someone else suggested, one could find a 12-string guitar with a shorter scale. Alternatively, one could tune a standard 12-string guitar one step down and capo on the second fret.

    xocd

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    Default Re: 12 string guitar "conversion" that does it all?

    Quote Originally Posted by xocd View Post
    One issue with the OP's original proposal is that g' (392 Hz) at a scale of 25.5" is very close to the breaking stress of a regular steel string (g#' is the nominal breaking frequency of a standard steel string at that scale). As someone else suggested, one could find a 12-string guitar with a shorter scale. Alternatively, one could tune a standard 12-string guitar one step down and capo on the second fret.

    xocd
    Good point. I only realised that after posting. High G would be around 00.8 (octave string of the G) and in unison, that would be a harsh sound. High A string is probably out of bounds.

    A 12 string DADGAD or DADGBD guitar with the G string tuned in Unsion would be much more promising, we would be back in Guitar land though.

    Decisions, decisions ...
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  10. #10

    Default Re: 12 string guitar "conversion" that does it all?

    You may need to tune down to C and capo up.

  11. #11
    Registered User zoukboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 12 string guitar "conversion" that does it all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Klaus Wutscher View Post
    I have read the threads about 12 string "conversions" (changing string guages, really) and my question is:

    My interests lie in playing trad tune accomp. and melody playing, old time tunes, general folk purposes and possibly swedish music at some point.

    I currently own a Fylde Octave, which I use for trad accomp in GDAD. Great for backing, for tune playing the D string is killing me.

    I´ve researched and played a few 10 string instruments in DGDAD and GDADG (short neck) tuning. Both make a lot of sense for me, the longer scale in duo settings and the short scale for playing tunes in first position, which needs some getting used to, but is doable.

    So the obvious solution is a DGDADG 12-string. Guages are realistic, quality instruments are plentiful with attractive prices on the used market and the best of both worlds is combinde in one istrument, what could possibly go wrong?

    Since there is no such a thing an instrument that`s perfect for everything, what am I missing?

    Thanks a lot!
    I've done it. It works, sorta. It will still sound like a guitar, and if that's your goal then have at. You might consider tuning the whole thing down a whole step to C2F2C3G3C4F4 and capoing to the 2nd fret.

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