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Thread: Pentatonic phrases

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    Default Pentatonic phrases

    I'm looking for pentatonic phrases to practice pentatonic scales in a pleasant musical way. Do you know a method that proposes this type of phrases ?

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    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pentatonic phrases

    One way is to vary the rhythm, swing it, play it like a guitar boogie, etc. stressing different beats.

    Another is to get a book of licks, something like 400 Smokin’ Bluegrass Licks For Mandolin - most useful licks are in a pentatonic range with often a few other notes thrown in.
    Last edited by Mark Gunter; Apr-16-2023 at 7:58am.
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    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pentatonic phrases

    Listen to great pentatonic players - not just mando, but Sam Bush is a great place to start on mando.

    But, Eric Clapton, B B king. King Curtis. Charlie Parker. Bonnie Raitt., Derek Trucks.

    A small list. Not all are exclusively pentatonic. But use the pentatonic scale brilliantly. Try and transcribe their stuff in mandolin.

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    Default Re: Pentatonic phrases

    I learned a lot from The Pentatonic Mandolin by Niles Hokkanen

    https://www.elderly.com/products/the...tonic-mandolin

    Cheers,

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    Default Re: Pentatonic phrases

    Not sure if this is what you are looking for specifically, but you could google songs that exclusively use the Pentatonic scale for the melody. Tons of Eric Clapton if you are into the blues. Purple Haze and Hey Joe if you like Jimi. My Girl from motown. Money from Pink Floyd. Will the Circle, Amazing Grace, Camptown Races, Nine Pound Hammer from bluegrass. Anyway, that is kind of my method for working on skills--find songs that emphasize those skills and play them. You are never going to lack for songs with pentatonic based melodies.

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    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pentatonic phrases

    An example of a classic pentatonic riff; you could practice your scales by playing this riff in every key. Just one of many examples. But don’t be quick to dismiss the idea of simply varying your rhythm in playing through the scales to find your own musicality. Exercising some creativity is always a good practice.



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    Registered User Bruce Clausen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pentatonic phrases

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    Not sure if this is what you are looking for specifically, but you could google songs that exclusively use the Pentatonic scale for the melody. Tons of Eric Clapton if you are into the blues. Purple Haze and Hey Joe if you like Jimi. My Girl from motown. Money from Pink Floyd. Will the Circle, Amazing Grace, Camptown Races, Nine Pound Hammer from bluegrass. Anyway, that is kind of my method for working on skills--find songs that emphasize those skills and play them. You are never going to lack for songs with pentatonic based melodies.
    This is great advice. You can probably think of a bunch of tunes you can sing that use only or almost only the c-d-e-g-a scale formula. Try playing them.

    Another fun thing to try is: sit down at the piano and play for half an hour using only the black keys (which follow the same formula).

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    Default Re: Pentatonic phrases

    Quote Originally Posted by RobP View Post
    I learned a lot from The Pentatonic Mandolin by Niles Hokkanen

    https://www.elderly.com/products/the...tonic-mandolin

    Cheers,

    Rob
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    Kelley Mandolins Skip Kelley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pentatonic phrases

    Niles books are wonderful teaching materials. Highly recommended.

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    Default Re: Pentatonic phrases

    The fun fact that all posters who recognize pentatonic teaching material see is that the pentatonic system will lead you far beyond just one style. This was one of the major mind benders that I took from Niles´ book/casette. The scales were played over different keys. That showed you their funcionality in different musical contexts. This is a crude and limited description. The use of pentatonics cannot be underestimated.
    Olaf

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    Default Re: Pentatonic phrases

    Just learn bugle calls!
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    Registered User mbruno's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pentatonic phrases

    There's lots of great tunes that use mostly if not only pentatonic based melodies. A few:

    There's More Pretty Girls Than One
    Rocky Top (at least the A part - the B part does have an F so it's not strictly pentatonic)
    I Saw the Light

    I would suggest listening to those types of songs and paying attention to the solo breaks. Often those solos, especially on more melodic base solos, are a bit more pentatonic based (though usually with notes like b3, b5, and b7 added for tension purposes). Learning those solos - or at least specific riffs in those solos - is a great way to up your solo game.

    Also practicing the pentatonic scales in a variety of ways - including skipping thirds (i.e. G B A D B E D G E A G etc) and running thirds (G A B A B D B D E D E G etc) forwards and backwards - is super helpful. A lot of riffs are based on these types of movements and practicing them will make it a lot easier to hit those.

    I haven't read the books mentioned so far, but I generally don't find the "1000 riffs" type books helpful. No knock on them - I know a lot of folks that love em - but for me they are usually a bit out of context and it can be difficult to remember how/when to use them. Using songs is a bit more helpful IMO as you have the context and can play along with it easily. Plus it makes it easier to make the lick "yours".
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  22. #13

    Default Re: Pentatonic phrases

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Clausen View Post
    This is great advice. You can probably think of a bunch of tunes you can sing that use only or almost only the c-d-e-g-a scale formula. Try playing them.

    Another fun thing to try is: sit down at the piano and play for half an hour using only the black keys (which follow the same formula).

    So, my "method" for practicing these songs with an eye towards learning about the Pentatonic Scale would go something like this:

    1. play the pentatonic in the appropriate key a bunch of times. In two octaves if possible.
    2. pick out the melody and play that a bunch of times. Play it in a second octaves if possible.
    3. repeat steps one and two working to transpose this to different keys. Use both open and four finger close positions. Also try sliding up the neck
    4. solo over the song using the pentatonic, first in the key and moving to other keys
    5. Possibly try to add ornaments such as slides, double-stops, etc (I usually think of these as separate, distinct skills, so I may or may not try adding that here).

    That sounds like far more of an organized method than my actual practice reflects, but ideally that is how i would work on this.

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  24. #14

    Default Re: Pentatonic phrases

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    Just learn bugle calls!
    How do bugle calls use the pentatonic scale? None of the ones I know use it.

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    Registered User Bruce Clausen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pentatonic phrases

    Quote Originally Posted by David L View Post
    How do bugle calls use the pentatonic scale? None of the ones I know use it.
    Actually, a bugle plays the overtone series of its fundamental pitch. If the fundamental is C, the bugle gives C (an octave above the fundamental), then G, C, E, G, and then a flat Bb, followed be C, D, E, a funny F#, then G, etc. Nothing pentatonic about it. Bugle calls normally use the first five or so overtones.

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    Default Re: Pentatonic phrases

    duplicate post. sorry
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    Default Re: Pentatonic phrases

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Clausen View Post
    Bugle calls normally use the first five or so overtones.
    The first five overtones are notes in the major pentatonic scale, and it is not till the seventh overtone you get a note that is not in the major pentatonic scale. My thought was that bugle calls are simple rememberable phrases that exercise the ear training and finger pattern training that overlap with pentatonics enough to get one going.

    Another option are the myriad of Irish Polkas that use a lot of pentatonic intervals. Ultimately learning Irish polkas might be more useful, at least until mandolins are called upon to start horse races.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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    Registered User meow-n-dolin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pentatonic phrases

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikh View Post
    I'm looking for pentatonic phrases to practice pentatonic scales in a pleasant musical way. Do you know a method that proposes this type of phrases ?

    One nice trick for variation and fun: I sometimes mix in the pentatonic Aeoloian mode for playing blues (basically a f-tone Em scale). For instance, for blues in E, try the G pentatonic Aeolian. One more way to use a scale you already know.

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    Registered User Bruce Clausen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pentatonic phrases

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    My thought was that bugle calls are simple rememberable phrases that exercise the ear training and finger pattern training that overlap with pentatonics enough to get one going.)
    That is a good point, Jeff. Simple and familiar tunes with few notes. In effect you'll be practising major chord arpeggios, but with clear melodic and rhythmic shapes.

    A tritonic scale if you like (only three notes), but a good drill.

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    Default Re: Pentatonic phrases

    Love this thread.

    I have benefited from practicing the pentatonics in ascending 4 note groupings.

    Example: 1-2-3-5, 2-3-5-6, 3-5-6-1 ,….

    (Numbers are the major scale degrees)

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    Default Re: Pentatonic phrases

    Quote Originally Posted by kwd View Post
    Love this thread.

    I have benefited from practicing the pentatonics in ascending 4 note groupings.

    Example: 1-2-3-5, 2-3-5-6, 3-5-6-1 ,….

    (Numbers are the major scale degrees)
    Aside from good practice, this doubles as a great riff in breaks Especially adding a chord at the end and/or playing it descending
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