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Thread: Washburn 215

  1. #26
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    Yes...did you get that from Elderly?




  2. #27

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    Say, Buckley, how are you enjoying that Stella...or otherwise?

  3. #28
    Professional History Nerd John Zimm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by
    Say, Buckley, how are you enjoying that Stella...or otherwise?
    Sad to say, I strung it up and it sounds like wires from a screen door strung across a wooden cracker box. It does have structural problems, with some binding between the ribs being cracked and pushed in, and the finish is shot, but I am not sure how one would make a playable instrument out of it. I am thinking it may look nice on the wall.

    -John.
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  4. #29

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    Eeeww! I'm sorry to hear it (and would be sorrier to hear it).

  5. #30
    Professional History Nerd John Zimm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by
    Eeeww! I'm sorry to hear it (and would be sorrier to hear it).
    yeah, you would be pretty sorry to hear it. It is a shame when good bowlbacks go bad. And here I was getting fired up to join the Brotherhood of the Bowl.

    -Buckley.
    Ah! must --
    Designer Infinite --
    Ah! must thou char the wood 'ere thou canst limn with it ?
    --Francis Thompson

  6. #31

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    Well, buckley... I think we have a Brother-in-Waiting status classification on our charter, don't we?

    But you are right: Some bowlbacks have sustained so much structural damage that they cannot be salvaged: many, perhaps TOO many parts that can come apart with time and neglect.

    Still, have you given us a detailed account of the condition of this instrument? I, for one, would not give up a mando for dead without due, ehm... biopsy.
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  7. #32
    Professional History Nerd John Zimm's Avatar
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    Hey Victor,

    I can take some pictures and post them. I am not sure that I could get some of the features to show up, like the terrible finish, but I will try. Basically, the major problems are the finish and the hole in the back where the binding between the ribs was crushed in at some point. That isn't too bad, and is only an inch long and there is no damage to the rib itself. Also, the tuners are terrible and ought to be replaced. The soundboard looks dry and not particularly flexible, and I am not sure how to correct that without stripping the finish, putiing some kind of oil on the wood, and then refinishing it. On a good note, the fingerboard is absolutely flat and straight, and the frets are all perfectly level.

    I had the crazy thought of trying to build a bowlback using my Stella as a pattern. I'd basically just take measurements as best I could and try to devise some type of jig to hold the ribs after I bent them. If I thought it all out and made the right kind og jig, I think a bowlback could be fairly simple to make. I'll keep you posted if this actually comes to fruition. Maybe one day the Buckly Bowlback will be all the rage. Maybe I'll call it the Buckley Taterbug.

    -John.
    Ah! must --
    Designer Infinite --
    Ah! must thou char the wood 'ere thou canst limn with it ?
    --Francis Thompson

  8. #33
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Buckley @ Feb. 11 2004, 09:22)
    I had the crazy thought of trying to build a bowlback using my Stella as a pattern. #I'd basically just take measurements as best I could and try to devise some type of jig to hold the ribs after I bent them. #If I thought it all out and made the right kind og jig, I think a bowlback could be fairly simple to make. #I'll keep you posted if this actually comes to fruition. #Maybe one day the Buckly Bowlback will be all the rage. #Maybe I'll call it the Buckley Taterbug. #

    -John.
    I certainly understand the desire to build a bowlback but why use as a standard an instrument that "sounds like wires from a screen door strung across a wooden cracker box." #Get hold of a high quality good sounding bug and go from there. I am sure than many of us on this list would be happy to show you their prize instruments for copying.

    As far as guidance on construction... I am not sure. I know that Robert Lundberg's book on lute construction is the be-all for lutes and I imagine that there are many similarities in construction.

    If the Stella is a lost case, tho, why not just try to improve it yourself? Take the whole thing apart and see how it ticks. Just my HO.

    For your information: Musikalia, the makers of inexpnsive bowlbacks and the like, have a page of construction here.

    Jim
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  9. #34
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    Concerning Brent's Washburn 215, keef asked:

    ...did you get that from Elderly?


    Actually, I got it via the MC classified section from George Manno (great guy, a million great stories) as trade for an electric guitar. However, George got it from Elderly, and they still have the pictures up at: http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/90U-3453.htm>

  10. #35

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    Nice link, Jim. A while back, I had promised to post something similar, by translating from an old book I have (in Greek) describing in some detail the construction of folk lutes in general. I hope to retrieve that book around Easter and, if interest in the subject on this board continues, post something (perhaps) of value. For a change
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  11. #36
    Professional History Nerd John Zimm's Avatar
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    Victor,

    I would be incredibly interested in seeing this sometime. I would actually be interested in learning Greek sometime, as my wife's family emigrated from Greece a while back.

    Quote Originally Posted by
    I certainly understand the desire to build a bowlback but why use as a standard an instrument that "sounds like wires from a screen door strung across a wooden cracker box." Get hold of a high quality good sounding bug and go from there. I am sure than many of us on this list would be happy to show you their prize instruments for copying.
    I am reasoning that the Stella sounds so bad because of the wood, not the dimensions. I believe it will be fine as a model for a better instrument. I do not want to take it apart because it is a family heirloom in my wife's family, and as such has value beyond its ability to produce music.

    I am going to check out the book on lute construction and see if there are any ideas that I can use. I am thinking it would be great fun to try and make one of these.

    -John.
    Ah! must --
    Designer Infinite --
    Ah! must thou char the wood 'ere thou canst limn with it ?
    --Francis Thompson

  12. #37
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Possibly it is the wood and the construction of the instrument. On the other hand I have played Stellas that sounded fine, not too refined like Vegas or Martins but decent sounding.

    My point was, since you are building something from scratch, why not check out other makers methods, esp those of instruments whose sound you like?

    Jim
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  13. #38

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    Well, buckley, since this project of yours is meant to be a "personal journey" of sorts, you can go about it in any one of many ways. In time, I will share with you what (little) I know.

    What no article on the subject can possibly convey sufficiently is how many, many hours of work go into building an instrument. In fact, the only way instrument shops attain cost-effectiveness is by specialization: I know, for example, that few shops in Greece build their own bowls; many pre-fab bowls seem to come from a handful of bowlsmiths/bowlwrights (what would be an eloquent and appropriate English term for "builder of bowls"?) This applies to mandolins, bouzoukis, and all other folk-lutes... Ditto on necks, fingerboards, bridges and, of course, metal hardware.

    On the other extreme, Larson builds his bowls without a mold (!!!), as per RSW's report (Richard, apologies if I am misquoting you—#I remember this from a while back). Absent a mold and a mechanism for mass-production of bowls, building just one mandolin is a larger project than you may imagine. Think of all the initial tooling alone!

    The outside-in, staves-on-a-mold procedure made the mandolin the popular and popul-IST instrument it once was. It also has kept valuation of even the finest pieces from ever reaching the price levels that all-hand-carved, quality violins have risen to. Then again, THAT is a bit of a conspiracy amongst dealers and belongs to an entirely other rave, not on this board.



    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  14. #39
    Professional History Nerd John Zimm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by
    Possibly it is the wood and the construction of the instrument. On the other hand I have played Stellas that sounded fine, not too refined like Vegas or Martins but decent sounding.

    My point was, since you are building something from scratch, why not check out other makers methods, esp those of instruments whose sound you like?
    Good point Jim. I will look into some finer bowlbacks. I am currently in the research phase of the project, as I am currently struggling to build a celtic style mando which is much easier to construct than a bowlback I imagine.

    Anyway, if this project does ever mature past its present larval condition, I will keep you posted. heck, I will probably take many pictures just to prove I did it.

    -John.
    Ah! must --
    Designer Infinite --
    Ah! must thou char the wood 'ere thou canst limn with it ?
    --Francis Thompson

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