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Thread: Washburn 215

  1. #1
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    Hi Folks. I just posted this in the "Info about mandolins" section of the message board, but I thought I'd put it up here as well, to take advantage of the local expertise.
    I just made a trade for a Washburn model 215 bowlback mandolin. Can anyone tell me when these were made and where they fit into the Washburn line? It seems that several years ago, I read an article in a music magazine about the history of Washburn bowlbacks. The guy who wrote it had over 50 of them, and the first picture was of him with all of his Washburns. Does that ring a bell with anyone?

  2. #2

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    That was probably:
    Russell, Neil. 2002. Luthier at Large. Mandolin Magazine 3(4):37-38.
    Neil is THE Washburn guy. #Style 215 was Washburn's most basic model from 1905 through 1914. #"Cremonatone" was dropped from the label around 1910; that might help you get a little closer to manufacture year. #Even though this was the most basic Washburn model, the Washburn brand was Lyon & Healy's premier line. #It will be made of quality spruce and Brazilian rosewood and should be enjoyed to the fullest. #Make sure you string it up with ultra light strings (down to 0.009" or 0.0095" on e") and enjoy!

    PS: Brent, I might be up NMU way this spring on a grant to collect some coaster brook trout.




  3. #3
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Here is a scan of a catalog page I have dated 1909.

    Hey, Brent, did you get your 100 free lessons with that mandolin?

    Jim



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    I just love this bulletin board!

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    Thanks Everyone. That is definitely the mandolin. Can't wait to get it. I once had a 1914 Martin 00 that I enjoyed a lot, and have been looking around for a bowlback for years. I'm really excited about getting this one.

    PS - Eugene, drop me an email offline at <bgraves@nmu.edu>. If you are in the vicinit of NMU, perhaps we could arrange a research seminar, and some mandolin pickin' of course.
    Brent

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    I got the Washburn 215 yesterday. It plays great. I have a tendency to clamp down with my right hand fingers, but for some reason, perhaps very low action, this one induces me to lighten up. It also sounds very nice. I now have an F5-style, an A5-style, a 1920 A-2 round hole, and this bowlback. The differences in tone are very interesting.
    Brent

  7. #7

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    Coincidence!? I just received a 1905-1910 Washburn style 225 yesterday. It needs a new bridge and the frets are mighty low, but other than that it looks good. The rosewood is intensely figured. More as it develops.

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    BTW, the label on this one does not say "Cremonatone," so I guess it was made between 1910 and 1914. Sound right? Also, it looks like it is strung with silk-n-steel strings (silverish G and D strings), so I figure the string tension is pretty low. So what do you think about the 225? How does that differ from the 215?
    Brent

  9. #9

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    Well, the strings on my 225 were too heavy. #I pulled them off and cleaned and oiled things. #Upon restringing with incredibly cheap and light Mari strings (silver plated), I discovered one g and one d' tuner slipped badly enough that they could not be brought to pitch. #I have left it with a local shop. #When it's back, I intend to have the L&H-style bridge reproduced by Ben Wilcox if he'll give me his time. #It sounded very nice from what I could hear of a' and e" before I sent the piece away.

    Style 225 has 21 rosewood ribs. #Tuners are enclosed behind an engraved plate, and it has an engraved tailpiece. #There is some simple mother-of-pearl inlay in the scratchplate and all position markers are engraved (a dot at five, but fanciful thingies at 1, 7, 10, and 12). #Binding and rosette are multi-colored herringbone. #Here is an image provided by the seller complete with one of the most atrocious replacement bridges I've encountered (I think the bridge was designed for an arched top and nobody made any effort to fit it to this piece).



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  10. #10
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Eugene @ Jan. 29 2004,13:16)
    Upon restringing with incredibly cheap and light Mari strings (silver plated), I discovered one g and one d' tuner slipped badly enough that they could not be brought to pitch.
    I have one of these but there are a few things wrong with mine. The tuner gears are held on only with rivets not screws. Neil Russel suggested a way to peen them but I may just send the whole tuner mechanisms to him to work on.

    Eugene: were your tuners like these?
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Eugene @ Jan. 29 2004,13:16)
    Here is an image provided by the seller complete with one of the most atrocious replacement bridges I've encountered (I think the bridge was designed for an arched top and nobody made any effort to fit it to this piece).
    Here is a photo of the bridge that came with mine.

    You will note that it is not the bridge design with the bone insert.

    Also, the other big problem with it is that the top has sunk around the cant. Is there a way that a pro luthier can fix that without replacing the top?



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  12. #12
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Hard to tell from the catalog page but it looks to me that my bridge is pretty close to the original.
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    Oops! Perhaps this one will better serve the purpose.



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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by (jgarber @ Jan. 29 2004,16:04)
    Eugene: were your tuners like these?
    Absolutely. I think that's the standard-issue enclosed L&H tuner.

    Quote Originally Posted by
    Hard to tell from the catalog page but it looks to me that my bridge is pretty close to the original.
    All the L&H-brand bowlbacks seem to have squared off bridges with various decorative cuts at the terminus. I have a friend with quite a stash of Washburns. The closest L&H of which I know is a friend with a decent American Conservatory. I'll probably use that as a model for reproduction, but may have Ben dress it up a la Garber.

    Quote Originally Posted by
    Also, the other big problem with it is that the top has sunk around the cant. Is there a way that a pro luthier can fix that without replacing the top?
    That sounds like a tricky business to me. If a brace is loose, reglueing it might restore the top to some degree; if the sinkage isn't severe, it might be enough. I know of a local flat-back L&H that had a sunken cant and a loose brace. A rather durable baloon was inflated inside the soundbox and the brace glued. This restored the top for a time; the last I saw the piece, the cant had fallen a little bit again but to a fraction of its prior state of bad. You might want to at least call Tom at Umanov's for a little free exploratory consultation.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Eugene @ Jan. 29 2004,16:58)
    Quote Originally Posted by (jgarber @ Jan. 29 2004,16:04)
    Eugene: were your tuners like these?
    Absolutely. #I think that's the standard-issue enclosed L&H tuner.
    I consulted with Mr. Russell and he said that many of them (later ones?) had the screw holding the gear. It sounds like you may have the same problem that I have, i.e. the gear falling off the post.

    Jim
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  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by (jgarber @ Jan. 29 2004,17:31)
    It sounds like you may have the same problem that I have, i.e. the gear falling off the post.
    Exactly. I think I may write Neil to access his secret peening method too.

    Hey, I didn't get my 100 free lessons either!

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    Here is a picture of my Washburn 215 that I inherited from Great Grandfather. This one was abused, it hung above a fireplace in a cabin in the Poconos for years until the Cabin burnt down. I had Whil at Spruce Tree Music in Madison, WI. fix a couple of cracks and spaces between the Ribs. Don't know if you can tell from this picture, but the top has no cant to it.
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    I just read this copy from an 1889 Washburn catalog and figured I'd share it. Gives you an idea about how popluar the mandolin was and how big a manufacturer L&H was... or were they pulling our leg. Ah, those golden days...

    Hey, Eugene... maybe we can send those patent heads back to the factory. Where's that time machine?

    Jim



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    Hey Jim - are you sure that's 1889 - or 1899??

    BTW - for any of the prewar Washburn mando owners on this forum: dating can be done on the basis of the serial numbers too...let me know if you are interested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by
    I had Whil at Spruce Tree Music in Madison, WI.
    Hey Ken, I was just at Spruce Tree the other day to buy a new strap for my Mk and a set of ultra lights for my Stella. Small world.

    -John.
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    Quote Originally Posted by (keef @ Feb. 02 2004,22:40)
    Hey Jim - are you sure that's 1889 - or 1899??
    I got this copy from Neil Russell who is pretty knowledgeable and he dated it 1889-90.

    Jim

    Do you have a list of numbers? My 225 is A-2156.



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    A-2156...my best guess would be around 1907. Check with Neil too...

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    keef,
    Where can I find the master list?

    Jim
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    Umm...nowhere. I know that Neil is working on a book right now. I have compiled a lot of Washburn serial number data but am not ready to publish anything yet - any findings should stand up to scrutiny, which is why I need more time to go over my research data.

    The absence of historical company records is the biggest problem. It's so much easier to do something on Martin or Gibson - but that has been done before...

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    My 215 is A-12254, writtten in very pretty script on the label, as well as ink-stamped on the neck block. Information from earlier in this thread leads me to believe that it was made between 1910 (when Cremonatone was dropped from the label) and 1914 (when the model 215 was dropped). Does this sound about right?
    Brent

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