Recording King A-style mandolin on the cheap.

[dcuttler]

OK folks, after lurking here for a while I just purchased a very inexpensive blemished "store return" Recording King A-shape mandolin from an Ebay seller. It only had a couple of tiny marks near one of the sound holes. Other than that, it looks new.

I tuned it up, and immediately both E strings snapped, but I intended to replace them with D'addario EJ74 strings anyway so I wasn't upset. After applying some fretboard oil, and installing the new strings I checked the action, and of course it was bad. Too much neck relief, action too high, and while fussing with it, the strap peg fell out. Also it had a bad fret buzz when fingering the G&D strings at the 10th fret. Using the short side of my string height gauge I found that the 11th fret was too high. The string height at the nut was also too high. In short, it had never been setup.

I reset the fret by laying a wooden popsicle stick on it and with solid support under the neck, tapped it lightly with a small 8oz hammer which eliminated the fret buzz.

Using the truss rod I adjusted the neck relief down to .005 inch, reduced the string height at the nut, and set the string height at the 12th fret to .050 inch bass & .040 inch treble, while making sure the intonation was spot on. Lastly I wrapped a piece of blue painters tape around the strap peg and tapped it into place.

It helped that I have set up a number of guitars and ukuleles for myself in the past, so I wasn't afraid to jump into this project. For a total investment of about $140.00 including tax, shipping, and new strings, I now own a mandolin that looks great, and is very easy to play. It's also really loud.

It's easy to see why this was a store return, probably from an internet seller that didn't take the time to do a proper setup prior to shipping. While it all worked out for me, this should be a cautionary tale for buyers not having the skills and tools to work on their own instruments. It's pure chance a typical low price imported instrument will play well when it arrives unless purchased from a dealer who will do the required work for you.

In conclusion the Recording King A-style mandolin can be an awesome instrument if you get a good one. I'm a happy camper.

[Jeff Mando]

Good job!

[Mark Gunter]

Excellent! And for what it’s worth, virtually *ALL* of these entry level, big factory instruments will need setup work as shipped from the factory. None that I know of ship with a proper setup, unless they are shipped from a 3rd party who has performed a setup. Sadly, many beginners attempt to begin learning on instruments that are practically unplayable.

[Bob Buckingham]

I've got a student with one of those Dirty 30's A and it is a really good sounding mandolin for the money. It plays nicely, much better than the generic Pacific Rim peice of plywood he started with. He is a kid who is actually getting a lot better since getting that mandolin.

[Mando Esq]

That’s great.

A little bit of set up knowledge and a couple basic tools can go a long way.

[Simon DS]

Nice job, photos please.

[DavidKOS]

Excellent! And for what it’s worth, virtually *ALL* of these entry level, big factory instruments will need setup work as shipped from the factory. None that I know of ship with a proper setup, unless they are shipped from a 3rd party who has performed a setup. Sadly, many beginners attempt to begin learning on instruments that are practically unplayable.

I can second that.

For some years, I worked at a music dealer that imported many instruments and for the most part, the factory steups on the lower price (and some medium price) fretted instruments was, shall we say, seriously lacking.

The biggest problem was that the nuts were cut too high, making it impossible to get decent action and good intonation.

Often these were plastic molded nuts with pre-cut slots. Some were even hollow.

I wound up removing these crappy nuts and carefully sanding or filing the bottom until they would be the right height. You couldn't cut the slots deeper on the hollow ones because you would cut into the hollow part. Plus, you had to do the sanding by hand because the plastic would melt if you tried to use a belt sander.

Once I did this, then I'd have to address the neck, fret, and bridge issues.

I feel sorry for beginners that get instruments that have not been shop adjusted...how can you learn on a mandolin that a pro could not even play?

[Eric Platt]

Another congrats on getting it set up properly. Yes, not only the inexpensive instruments, but even a lot of higher quality ones can use another setup. (Am mainly thinking of guitars which is where I have more experience.)

[dcuttler]

Simon,

Here it is stuffed into a Kala hard foam concert ukulele case.

[Simon DS]

Nice, I have a case that’s a bit like that where I’ve put foam inserts into the liner to get it to be more circular.
Works well, and thanks to all the people who play ukulele!

[dcuttler]

Davidkos,

My mandolin has a solid plastic nut, so rather than trying to sand the bottom, I used one of my thin triangle shaped swiss needle files to lower each string. I used a folded strip of paper with a total thickness of 0.009 inch as a feeler gauge, placing the paper strip under each string at the 1st fret while fingering the 2nd fret, and adjusting the "pull" to be lighter going from the E string down to G. I've done it this way on ukuleles and guitars before, and it always seems to work well. This also allows the nut slots to have the correct depth for each string. I kind of worked the file to the sides a bit when cutting the wider G&D strings to shape the slot width. I am sure there are other ways to do this, but I like to use the tools I already have, and it seems to work.

I am now well into my 80's, have acquired lots of tools, and over the years, any interest or activity that had gear, I made an effort to learn how to do it myself. I even learned how to program my own hearing aids. Along with age also comes occasional hand tremors, which can be a limiting factor requiring two hands to do the work of one when doing fine work.

[DavidKOS]

Davidkos,

My mandolin has a solid plastic nut, so rather than trying to sand the bottom, I used one of my thin triangle shaped swiss needle files to lower each string. I used a folded strip of paper with a total thickness of 0.009 inch as a feeler gauge, placing the paper strip under each string at the 1st fret while fingering the 2nd fret, and adjusting the "pull" to be lighter going from the E string down to G. I've done it this way on ukuleles and guitars before, and it always seems to work well. This also allows the nut slots to have the correct depth for each string. I kind of worked the file to the sides a bit when cutting the wider G&D strings to shape the slot width. I am sure there are other ways to do this, but I like to use the tools I already have, and it seems to work.

I am now well into my 80's, have acquired lots of tools, and over the years, any interest or activity that had gear, I made an effort to learn how to do it myself. I even learned how to program my own hearing aids. Along with age also comes occasional hand tremors, which can be a limiting factor requiring two hands to do the work of one when doing fine work.

Thanks for your thoughtful post.

Like you, when I can use a file on a solid nut, bone or plastic, I would. It is the ideal way to work, and when possible I'd even use a round file to smooth out the nut slots.

Unfortunately, most of those particular batches of mandolins and guitars I was referring to had hollow plastic nuts.

If you filed down from the top like we normally would, you'd cut into the hollow part!

Also, I was working with shipping containers full of instruments, and was trying to do things in large batches.

Believe me, I'd rather have been able to spend the time carefully working over each instrument, but at some of the low price points we were dealing with, I had to figure out how to do certain things quickly.

Even many of the medium price point instruments with solid plastic nuts needed a lot of attention to get them to play well.

[ccravens]

All of these comments make me appreciate the sellers who provide a set-up as part of the transaction.

Even if the work may be reflected in a slightly higher price; well worth it, if the posts here are any judge.

[dcuttler]

Another tool that is great for lowering and rounding the bottom of nut slots is a welding tip cleaner. They have a collection of round serrated rods of increasing diameter that are perfect for this application, and are very inexpensive. I actually forgot that I had one until just now. Duh!

[dcuttler]

Well shortly after doing the setup on my Dirty 30's Mandolin, I received Robert Melduum's book on how to setup a mandolin, and I have to say that it's very complete, and even if you never plan to do the work yourself, it will definitely help you to know if your mandolin is set up correctly, and give you the ability to do a QC on whoever works on it in the future. You won't need everything he lists, just the basic measuring tools.

With his guide in hand, I quality checked my own work, and found that the method I used to measure the string height when cutting the nut slots, left the strings too high. That's probably due to the difference in scale.

I reworked the slots, this time using metal feeler gauges, and string heights from his guide. Now it plays even better in the first position, with no buzz.

There are at least 2 threads regarding Robert's setup guide in this forum. Check it out.

I just wanted to share my experience.

[Mainer73]

Nice work! You're a braver man than me. I only attempted my own work once. Trying to make a VSO (Violin Shaped Object) from a regular music store properly set up. That was decades ago now and I happily keep luthiers in business. I can't say it hurt, but it definitely didn't help! Enjoy your new mandolin.

[anon-rickf]

I haven't had one of their mandolins in hand but I have purchased 3 of their guitars: a tenor, a Dirty 30's OO, and a Swamp Dog resonator. I really can't complain about any of them. The tenor and OO haven't needed any tweaking and sound reasonably good. The resonator I did do some tweaking on but because I wanted to upgrade it a bit so put in a National cone and pickup and it's pretty cool, I wouldn't be embarrassed to take it any place. All that is to say I probably wouldn't be too reluctant to buy one of their mandolins if the money was burning a hole in my pocket.

[dcuttler]

With today's automated machine tools, if a manufacturer gets their design right, selects good materials, and does a reasonable job of assembly, the end product should be pretty good. In the case of building string instruments I believe the limiting factor is the time devoted to doing the final adjustments.

In the case of many lower price instruments as shipped from the factory, it's a bit of a crap shoot, leaving the final QC to either the selling dealer, or the end user. Regardless of whether it's been setup prior to you receiving it, the basic design, materials, and assembly of a given product should be the same, and are baked in.

A number of years ago I had an opportunity to tour a Remington factory in NY state, where they had a HAAS Automation vertical machining center cutting "custom" rifle stocks. All they had to do was load the required program, clamp in a piece of wood, push the start button, and walk away. There is no way anyone could do that by hand at a reasonable cost.

Anyway back to the Recording King mandolins. Everything needed for a good instrument is there, and assuming someone is willing to make the final adjustments, the end result should be a mandolin that would probably cost many times more if it were handmade. Think "industrial revolution," which says it all.

[dcuttler]

Well this has been a lot of fun for $140.00, and I just learned my first tune, a basic version of Colored Aristocracy. It's become obvious that the finger calluses developed playing classical guitar won't quite get the job done on steel strings. Time should take care of that.

So far I have no regrets.

[Skydog6653]

I just received a Dirty 30’s mandolin today. I like it!

[sgosnell]

The old adage is "time is money", and no factory is going to spend the time required to do a decent setup on an instrument that sells for near $100. It's just not worth it. Few dealers will do the setup, for the same reasons. And to be honest, I've never tried a factory-built instrument of any brand or price, be it guitar, mandolin, or whatever, that had decent nut work. They are always set up with nut slots that are too high. It takes a lot of time to get nut slots to the perfect depth/height, and it also requires having the neck relief set to what it's going to be permanently. Players have a wide range of preference for neck relief and action, so that has to be allowed for. Factories just care more about profit, and investing time requires either a higher price or a lower margin. Neither is normally acceptable, so the instruments are shipped with nuts which put the strings much too high.

[cayuga red]

I can second that.

For some years, I worked at a music dealer that imported many instruments and for the most part, the factory steups on the lower price (and some medium price) fretted instruments was, shall we say, seriously lacking.

The biggest problem was that the nuts were cut too high, making it impossible to get decent action and good intonation.

Often these were plastic molded nuts with pre-cut slots. Some were even hollow.

I wound up removing these crappy nuts and carefully sanding or filing the bottom until they would be the right height. You couldn't cut the slots deeper on the hollow ones because you would cut into the hollow part. Plus, you had to do the sanding by hand because the plastic would melt if you tried to use a belt sander.

Once I did this, then I'd have to address the neck, fret, and bridge issues.

I feel sorry for beginners that get instruments that have not been shop adjusted...how can you learn on a mandolin that a pro could not even play?

Well stated.

[Mark Gunter]

It should be noted that a final setup is not (and should not) be done by factory anyway, regardless of the price tag. The action on an instrument is down to personal preference. I have no issue with doing setup on my instruments to suit myself.

The big issue, stated above several times, is that beginners usually do not know or understand any of this, and often buy instruments that are unplayable. That is a sad fact. I feel sorry for beginners who experience that and may simply decide that they’re not meant to play, all the while, the fault lies with an instrument that needs a setup.