New here

[Shootrj2003]

This mandolin is my first mandlin do and a resto to boot, I’ve built two Cigarbox guitars then I found this at a yard sale it has no Id label,the tuners are backward and slotted,a stamped nickel tail piece,the smallest string is .009 the largest .045, age and makerwould be nice but the age estimate is probably all that’s likely .there is some work but I think it will play again.

[Mark Gunter]

I can’t help you with this, there are others here who may be able to give some info. I’m just chiming in to welcome you to the forum. Hope the mandolin bug bites you hard, these are fun instruments to play.

[MikeEdgerton]

The tuners aren't backwards, those are worm under tuners.

http://www.lutherie.net/mandolin.gear.direction.html

You probably will never find the mechanism to repair the missing pieces on that one strip. Tuners are specified as worm over or worm under. These are A style tuners and the next thing you'll need to know is the spacing between the string posts center to center.

That instrument needs a whole lot of work including a new fingerboard. The tailpiece cover is missing but that isn't really an issue. Good luck with it.

[Shootrj2003]

Thank you,For the welcome,I am still new to music as a musician,actually about 6 mo. I always liked music of course but as far as,playing ..only a harmonica I do have friends who are great musicians but I always had something going on,I’m a woodworker and gun worker and I had lots of nice hardwood scraps laying around,someone gave me some cigar boxes and I thought I could make a Cigarbox guitar,in the learning curve to make one,you ,of course,have to learn,discover and use some rules and laws of music,( what a scale length is,what a scale is,what a fret is,etc. Etc….) I knew none of that but I wanted to end up with more than a box and a board .

[Shootrj2003]

See,you learn something every day wether you want to or not! I’m on a few music sites and nobody referred to ,”worm over”or “worm under”tuners,they called them backwards,in that the proper way to run tuners is so that string tension pulls the tuner gear into contact with the worm gears,not that people don’t run them that way just makes sense to,that is how it was explained to me and how a lot of makers do,however even on my one guitar they sent me the wrong side set and I used them anyway with no problems.I’m sure you know this stuff but I learn new things every day,thanks
I have some Wenge wood for a fretboard and as you say there is some work to be done the slats for the bowl need regluing at one joint ,and there is some other loose parts as well as some light finish work and new strings,.I’m also not sure about the pickguard,it is lifting up in spots it might be reglued possibly,or remade in new material

[CarlM]

You might want to show some pictures in a straight on side view. What commonly happens with these old bowl back mandolins is that the neck gets pulled up out of alignment with the body. They will then be difficult or impossible to play. That can be very difficult to fix on these because of the way the neck is attached to the body.

[MikeEdgerton]

See,you learn something every day wether you want to or not! I’m on a few music sites and nobody referred to ,”worm over”or “worm under”tuners,they called them backwards,in that the proper way to run tuners is so that string tension pulls the tuner gear into contact with the worm gears,not that people don’t run them that way just makes sense to,that is how it was explained to me and how a lot of makers do,however even on my one guitar they sent me the wrong side set and I used them anyway with no problems.I’m sure you know this stuff but I learn new things every day,thanks
I have some Wenge wood for a fretboard and as you say there is some work to be done the slats for the bowl need regluing at one joint ,and there is some other loose parts as well as some light finish work and new strings,.I’m also not sure about the pickguard,it is lifting up in spots it might be reglued possibly,or remade in new material

Worm over tuners came on the mandolin market in the early to mid 1920's. Honestly even though that explanation makes sense in real life it doesn't matter that much. Worm under tuners are still used on high and low end mandolins. There are thousands that are close to 100 years old still in service.

[Shootrj2003]

As said,I’ve used tuners like that myself,I did change it out later,but that’s just the mechanic in me!

[EdHanrahan]

... difficult to fix on these because of the way the neck is attached to the body.

Unlike more modern instruments, where the neck is slotted into a "neck block" that's part of the body, most bowlbacks' neck block is an integral part of the neck itself, to which the curved body strips of wood are attached. Correcting a warped neck-to-body joint effectively means re-building the body... starting with pre-warped wood. Some feel that it's less effort to start over from scratch.

When you get that far, use only the lightest gauge strings. When Jake Wildwood (well known around here) re-did my similar instrument, he used 2 sets of tenor banjo strings, something like .009 - .028.

... the next thing you'll need to know is the spacing between the string posts center to center.

Do be aware of parts supplier Stewart-MacDonald, a/k/a StewMac. Their product descriptions & tuner blueprints can be most educational.

And: Cutting accurate fret slots (pre-CNC) has stymied even the major manufacturers. There are other suppliers as well, LMI, or Luthiers Merchantile, being one.

And... Welcome!!

[Shootrj2003]

Unlike more modern instruments, where the neck is slotted into a "neck block" that's part of the body, most bowlbacks' neck block is an integral part of the neck itself, to which the curved body strips of wood are attached. Correcting a warped neck-to-body joint effectively means re-building the body... starting with pre-warped wood. Some feel that it's less effort to start over from scratch.

When you get that far, use only the lightest gauge strings. When Jake Wildwood (well known around here) re-did my similar instrument, he used 2 sets of tenor banjo strings, something like .009 - .028.



Do be aware of parts supplier Stewart-MacDonald, a/k/a StewMac. Their product descriptions & tuner blueprints can be most educational.

And: Cutting accurate fret slots (pre-CNC) has stymied even the major manufacturers. There are other suppliers as well, LMI, or Luthiers Merchantile, being one.

And... Welcome!!

I deal with stew Mack,as well as CB Gitty they are my go to suppliers( besides Amazon),for frets,tools and books for music ,strings,tuners definitely good sources of parts,my first fretboard I cut fret slots with a saw from Harbor frieght,a hand saw,it worked,but not perfectly,the next thing I bought was a good fretsaw and the next fretboard I did had much better fret slots ,I could buy the fretboards but making one and cutting frets,seems like,well one of those things you do to make the instrument.along with a few other skills of course,and for me a supply of wood and of course cigar boxes,I may eventually step into te more classical type guitars and other string instruments these and repairing things I find keeps me happy.oh and learning to play them!

[Shootrj2003]

Carl m
Here’s the pic you asked for, while it is pulled up a bit it is less than my guitar without the fret board at the base of the neck.I may have a bit of work having the sound board meet the fret board as it has sunk in ahead of the sound hole and the bracing might be holding it down I may have to study some other mandolins,I don’t want pull in place with clamps and have the sound board crack across the grain, it is already split with the grain but that’s an easier fixShooterj2003@yahoo.com

[JEStanek]

It likely sunk because someone put really thick strings on it. Those old bowl backs are lightly built and use string sets like the GHS UltraLights .009 - .032. Going heavier puts too much tension on the top and you get what you've got.

Welcome to the Cafe.

Jamie

[Richard500]

That photo says you’re about to embark on a truly educational project.
If lucky, you may be able to remove the neck without total dissection of the forward part of the bowl. Since the fingerboard is gone, you can explore if it’s conventional one piece neck, or not. Difficulty with this is what ends the playing life of many bowl backs.
I’m no luthier, so I wouldn’t choke over doing something radical unless the instrument happens to be rare or otherwise important. Carbon fiber and hardware may be involved.

[CarlM]

Carl m
Here’s the pic you asked for, while it is pulled up a bit it is less than my guitar without the fret board at the base of the neck.I may have a bit of work having the sound board meet the fret board as it has sunk in ahead of the sound hole and the bracing might be holding it down I may have to study some other mandolins,I don’t want pull in place with clamps and have the sound board crack across the grain, it is already split with the grain but that’s an easier fixShooterj2003@yahoo.com

This is what is commonly seen. That is definitely pulled badly. It will be a major project to make it playable. Replacing or straightening the neck will be a major challenge. From a learning perspective it will be an interesting experience. Most players want about 1/16 to 3/32 inch max clearance from the frets to the strings at the 12th fret. As bad as this is it will be difficult to play and may not even intonate properly to play in tune.

[EdHanrahan]

FWIW, it looks like most of the warp is in the area of frets 5 to 10 or so (if there were frets!). In my far-from-expert opinion, that's probably a good thing, as the body joint may be solid. So yes ...

... Carbon fiber and hardware may be involved.

[Shootrj2003]

It’s a good thing that this did not cost me a lot,but then I would not have offered more ,but it is a learning project and of interest to see what I can accomplish with it,the picture I will post here would make a experienced repair man or luthier either offer to sell me a good instrument and save me money or clap his hands in glee,depending on his ethical and /or moral outlook,(lol)the red and yellow indicates a sunken area,the green where edging is warped up,the yellow and black the crack that runs to the center bracing and I think extends under the celluloid protector decoration,I’m thinking the top may have to come off ,unless some really creative gluing miracle could occur .I’m game,I have steam ,hot knives and have patience,and intricate wood work experience,oh and many types of glue! Basically it does need a lot of soundboard repair ( it did sound fairly good though

[Bill McCall]

Taking the top off will be really educational, putting it back on even more.

have a good time with that instrument.

[Simon DS]

Does anyone take tops off bowlbacks using clingfilm to protect the bowl and plaster of paris to make a mould/support?