Bending a cast tailpiece

[MANNDOLINS]

Has anyone out there ever tried to bend a cast tailpiece? I'm putting together on of my electrics (flat top).Customer requested an allen ar-2 tailpiece but it has to much of a rise to it. I thought I might try bending it down towards body about 1/4" but my experience with cast bronze (very limited) tells me that it will probably break before it bends. it's also nickel plated. any thoughts, suggestions?

[Antlurz]

Maybe build a small wooden wedge shaped like the bracket to put between the tailpiece and the body? If done correctly, and if it tapers off to nothing, it would hardly be noticeable. Might need slightly longer screws.

Ron

[PaulD]

I haven't tried it with a tailpiece, but my experience with cast iron, brass, and bronze is that the odds of wrecking it are pretty good. I think your concern that it will crack is valid, and even if it doesn't you may very well cause the plating to flake. Good luck.

pd

[otterly2k]

Jon-- I had the exact same problem. I was successfully able to bend an Allen TR-1. I just clamped the part that goes on the bottom bout in a vise, and then gently leaned on the top part of the tailpiece. I did this gradually, testing it against the top of the instrument in between applications of pressure, and it worked well. I don't know whether this would work with the AR-2.

[mandolooter]

Cast metals will bend to some degree but the odds of breaking are way higher than with a stamped one...for the price of those I'd try the wooden shim first for sure!

[MANNDOLINS]

Whew!!! It made it . I went ahead and bent it. I did it like otterly2k described, a little at a time and it fits great now. Thanks for all the input!

[otterly2k]

livin on the edge! a potentially expensive gamble... glad it worked!

[mrkrishna]

I find it interesting that you could'nt wait for some more #valid answers before you try something like this. I guess you must have money to throw at this if you only wait 4 hours for answers and #then try it. How much was the tailpiece worth, and could you have got a second one right away if you had broke it?... Sorry if I offend, but it just seems very reckless...AND you are lucky it worked!

[Tom C]

Why the interest in how somebody proceeds? I think 4 hrs to wait is long. And yes, many people have lots of $$ to throw around, and maybe he has 5 tailpieces. Reckless does not seem like the right wording for trying to bend a piece of metal (unless you may hurt somebody by doing it).

[otterly2k]

mr.K-
I understand what you are saying, and these tp's are a bit pricey (retailing around $90 and usually can be found in the $60's if you dig around), which is why it was a bit of a risk.

I can't answer why Jon moved as quickly as he did. But I will say that learning from research (gathering all sorts of information) and learning from experience (from just DOing it) are both really valuable ways to learn. I think each of us has her/his own balance point between these which also changes with the circumstances.

For myself, when my tp was at the wrong angle, I researched a bazillion different cast tp's looking for just the right one for my OM. when I didn't find it, I was encouraged to try bending the one I had. I'm glad I did it. It has worked perfectly ever since.

There is always risk. People have different levels of comfort with that, and different levels of confidence in trying things.

[jim simpson]

Attached is a photo of my Price cast tailpiece with the cover removed. I seem to remember Scotti reporting that he bent his a little to adjust for the string angle. The cover presses against the strings when it closes. It is notched so it actually locks into place. Dr.Price advised against bending it and told me I should be able to press down against the string tension to put the cover on and off. I found that to be too much so I ran my strings under the leading edge as seen in the picture. I did use felt w/adhesive backing to keep the strings off of the hard cast surface.

[jim simpson]

Sorry about the flash, here's another shot.

[jim simpson]

The cover is engraved with "The Gibson" to match the one I took off.
Here's a photo of my current favorite tailpiece (James)!

[PaulD]

I find it interesting that you could'nt wait for some more valid answers before you try something like this. I guess you must have money to throw at this if you only wait 4 hours for answers and then try it. How much was the tailpiece worth, and could you have got a second one right away if you had broke it?... Sorry if I offend, but it just seems very reckless...AND you are lucky it worked!

I find it interesting that you are so concerned for the safety of Jon's tailpiece! I probably wouldn't have tried it for the reason's I posted, but there's something to be said for jumping in and getting the job done. I'm glad it worked out... now I might even try it if I'm confronted with a similar situation.

pd

[Bill Snyder]

I find it interesting that you could'nt wait for some more #valid answers before you try something like this. I guess you must have money to throw at this if you only wait 4 hours for answers and #then try it. How much was the tailpiece worth, and could you have got a second one right away if you had broke it?... Sorry if I offend, but it just seems very reckless...AND you are lucky it worked!

His first question was to find out if anyone had successfully bent a cast tailpiece. The answer was yes so he went for it. What is so hard to understand about that?

[Dale Ludewig]

My question would be "why not just call Randy Allen and ask?". Not meaning to offend but Randy is a great guy, very approachable, could probably tell you if and how you should try it. Or else he could probably send you a new tailpiece with a slightly different angle. I've used a number of his tailpieces and they do vary a bit on the angle, by at least a few degrees. I suspect it has something to do with grinding processes after the casting.

[BlueMountain]

Allens are terrific, and it's good to hear that they can be bent slightly. I got a couple $10 Chinese cast bronze tailpieces in the mail this week, tried to bend one a little, and cracked it. Stupid of me, Mr. Krishna, I know, but some metals bend okay, and I wasn't thinking straight. I wonder if one could easily bend a cast bronze tailpiece a little after heating the joint with a torch. I also wonder if I can repair the cracks, which are not all the way through, with brazing rod. Of course a torch would ruin any lacquer on the brass and perhaps any plating.

[mrkrishna]

I have also been impatient #more than a few #times, and I'm glad that it did work out for him. My intrest in this thread was to see how someone could do this without damaging or destroying the piece. I #wondered how I would do it and thought he kind of jumped the gun.I still don't understand how this can be done without delaminating part of the chrome and wrecking the look. If it was'nt chromed,I would have thought to heat it and manipulate it in a padded vice. So just when I thought someone (or a few) would tell how to do this properly, he posted that he had already bent the thing. It must have needed only to be moved like, 2 or 3 degrees? I also thought the shim idea was terrific...And you are right about reckless being #too strong word. A friend of mine says," Did someone die? If not why be freaked out about it?" #Cliff has a way of putting things into perspective.

[jim simpson]

"Maybe build a small wooden wedge shaped like the bracket to put between the tailpiece and the body? If done correctly, and if it tapers off to nothing, it would hardly be noticeable. Might need slightly longer screws." Ron

mrkrishna,
I agree, I think Ron's suggestion to make a spacer/shim was a good one. As I mentioned earlier when I contacted the maker of my Price tailpiece, the response was "do not bend it". I liked my solution and fortunately I didn't have to bend mine. I don't suppose there are any other folks that used a Price like mine? I would like to hear if others had trouble putting the cover on and off.

[Tavy]

OK, so I know that this is a very old thread, but thought it was worth an update.

I needed a slightly-better-than-pressed-metal tailpiece and started looking at the inexpensive Chinese cast metal ones: last time I looked at these they came in any colour you like as long as it's gold, but it seems they've expanded the range to include natural brass ones which seemed like they might match the aesthetic I wanted, so I decided to try bending one.

As it happens the tailpiece arrived almost pressed flat (for postage??) so the section that screws to the rib needed bending anyway, otherwise the thing would have stuck up in the air too much even for an archtop. I tried clamping and bending by hand, but didn't get very far, OK I could have tried harder but was worried about over-bending too quickly, so I clamped it up like so:



And gradually increased the pressure on the right hand clamp every few hours, well into the second day it came out like this:



That's bent far enough for this current usage, but I might well get some more of these and see if they'll go any further

There are only really two issues: one is that it ties up a workbench for a day, the other is that I did end up with some scratches on the face:



Given that this is a brass one, I'm assuming these will just buff out, but a gold or chrome TP would be a different issue - those would clearly require some very careful padding before attempting this!

[RobH]

I bought the same type of cast tailpiece from China for a flat top mandolin I built. It was cheap enough that I was willing to risk breaking it to bend it to a flatter angle. I put the body in a vise and smacked the endpin end with a wooden mallet. It bent nicely, it's probably a soft brass. I had no damage to the tailpiece and I'd do it again if needed.

[David Houchens]

I have used a wedge to change the angle and it can work very well. The suggestion to find longer screws is a good.